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WAAAAGGHH-god wrote:while i may not be able to enter into a contract, i am still liable if i commit a criminal act, eg: theft.

Yes, but that would not technically be theft. It would be me granting custodianship of my personal property to a minor, with free reign given to artistic license.
You would literally be able to set the models on fire, and claim that you didn't know that I didn't want them that way.
I'd point out that our contract said that I did NOT in fact.... Hey waaaaait, you can't enter into those, so any recourse I had just went into the toilet.

You can also vaporize carbon. Unfortunately, a diamond is a very specific chemical structure of carbon, not found in anything outside of, well, solid diamonds.
I'm also confused as to when exactly in the painting process my models become liquid anything.
Not to keep going back to the setting things on fire metaphor, but charcoal is also made of carbon. Its not the same thing.

Just checked through your gallery. Still not good enough to get a paying job IMO. You need to work on your basic brush skills - paint consistency and neatness. Both are at the moment (from what you're showing) too sloppy.

Especially considering a lvl 2 work:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/227704-Lv.%202%20troop.html

That is something I could have painted n the dark, with a brush made of my own hair glued to a stick. Only I would take the time to make sure that even with my limited toolset, I did not smudge smudges on the paint smears.

i would call the a fair comment if i were charging your prices for the beautifully done models you produce. but the point of my service is either to get an army done to a good table-top standard in a very short amount of time, or to produce a very nice display piece in a similar timescale.

and thumbs, while i might not enter a legal contract in the emails that i would exchange with my clients, i'm sure that anyone with two grams of sense (which i'm sure you have) would be able to read the requests for painting the army, made by the client, that i ask for do not entail burning, crushing, ripping apart, or the general demolition of my clients models.

WAAAAGGHH-god: I run a commission service, and I have to tell you, you really need to have consistent, excellent grammar and spelling to get people to trust you. Also, you need to be GOOD. Not GD good, but good.

So, here are some tips; Look at the two images I included. The one of the SM is what you should be aiming for with level 1 work. For a paintjob like that, you could charge $4 USD per level 1 figure.

And for your level 2 work, you should be aiming for something like this, for which you could charge, say, $8 USD per figure.


I hate to sound like a jerk, but your stuff that you have photographed will probably get only a 3-4 rating on the Dakka gallery; once you get to
where your stuff gets 6's and above, then your skills will be marketable.So, with those pictures/words in mind, I would recommend taking a year to practice and get better. Also, start a painting blog here on Dakka, and update it regularly.

_Tim?

Edit: Whoops, got my pictures mixed up! Fixed.

and here is my point, you are charging $4 per model for your level one work, where as i am charging less than £1. that is the point of my service, and i feel that i have a very fair price guide. unfortunately due to school commitments, i don't have the time to have a regularly updated painting blog; and as i have finished my current army, i intend to use the free time i would spend painting my own stuff, painting other peoples in order to make the money for my next army. and thankfully due to the great speed at which i can paint, i can get this done in my school holidays and occasional weekends off without any inconvenience to my clients (should i get any :I )

*sigh*

There really isn't a market at that bottom end of things. I've been that kid with his naffly painted models on display in the model shop (£1 per mini! Ah, the ignorance of youth...). You won't get a sale, and you'd do better spending the time getting to the point where you're technically more capable.

You need a quantifiable level of work that you can provide - for example, if I (or one of the painters working through me) do work scoring under 7 on CMON, our clients have cause for concern - that's what we're basically saying we aim for, as a minimum. You're not hitting the minimal standard needed to make it worth going to you (even for a quid), compared to spending just a bit more and getting a decent job done.

When you paint a unit for your own army, you (in the general sense) tend to think of it from a distance. If you pay for something (even a few pence) you pick it up and have a closer look. This is what kills that low end market.

Tim's examples are what 'good tabletop quality' means. Arguably the marauders are the level 2 though IMO. Hard to say without a closer look.

Edit: Try the actual acid test. Buy a model, preferably a character or something similar. Paint it. eBay it. If you make a profit, then people are willing to pay for your paintwork. If you don't, they're not.

Edited

how is that in any way constructive? at least give some advice instead of "you haven't got a hope in hell, go home"

It's an americanism for 'You are appearing not to take advice, perhaps you should listen'.

well, if you had taken the time to check (which i believe you did) you would have seen that i have taken some of the advice on board. i am not however going to give up, mostly because i need the money, but also because i love painting. even if it just one model for a display or centrepiece, i am happy to give people discounts if they offer me models to paint that i really love. so unfortunately, i am not going to stop trying.

WAAAAGGHH-god wrote:how is that in any way constructive? at least give some advice instead of "you haven't got a hope in hell, go home"

There have been lots of wisdom and experience in the advice given to you by many people that does commission ( Tim and Winter ). If all you can do is attempt to retort / argue against them all, why make this thread?
Maybe its better off if you do which ever you were doing and hope of the best?

Before i leave this thread, i just want to confirm one thing, HOW DO YOU gauge your own painting's lvls?
Is it time spent? or steps taken to paint something? you should be clear about it rather than just a simple "pic"

because i noticed something strange you posted. First you have the bad pics shrunken on your website
then we see the actual pic close up. Then we see you re painted the figure and label it lvl 1.

You know, when you commission something, the customer should KNOW EXACTLY what they'll get,
there is no such thing as changing it half way through after they paid you. UNLESS you are willing to make up the difference
on your own time and money.

#1 thing about commission is honesty, the rest is insignificant.

WAAAAGGHH-god wrote: unfortunately due to school commitments, i don't have the time to have a regularly updated painting blog;

So right there you're telling your client base that there is definitely something that would take complete precedence over completion of a project should a paper come up, or some other bit of homework.

WAAAAGGHH-god wrote:you are charging $4 per model for your level one work, where as i am charging less than £1.

That is somehwhat dishonest unless you know that the Pound is currently worth 1.6 dollars. so instead of a 4:1 disparity, its really more like 2:1 .

WAAAAGGHH-god wrote:unfortunately, i am not going to stop trying.

It is unfortunate, because at the moment, your painting quality is such that we are paying you to practice, and you are provding us with an opportunity to learn how to strip poorly painted models.


Please do not take my harsh words as pure discouragement. I'd like to see you succeed.
You'll need someone in your local gaming scene to take you up on the offer first, though. And give us a report. Because until then, you're charging for lvl 2 work for something even the most novice painter could achieve with a brush fashioned from a live ferret. Speed doesn't matter in cases like this, because even if there were a 3 color limit for a tourney, I'm not sure anyone would object to buying 3 cans of spray and going hog wild over choosing your stripping practice service.


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My girlfriend reading over my shoulder has informed me that I am acting like a humongous douche.
Tell you what: I'll be a customer, on the condition that you offer collateral. We would do a trade of approximate plastic value. I'll let you paint 48 of my termagants, if you send me approximately the same value of any other models. You could even ship it to my local Games Workshop instead of my home address, as a means of even half ass third party arbitration.

Thats about as fair as I can offer. If you succeed in what you promise at the level of service you promise, you'll get your money as well as the money for the retail price of the plastics you send.


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Some_Call_Me_Tim? wrote:you really need to have consistent, excellent grammar and spelling to get people to trust you.

Shazaam.

as appealing as that offer sounds, i am not to sure i want to ship to the us at the moment, however your offer seems reasonable and i will see what models i can afford to ship over

Allow me to further sweeten the deal then: I will reimburse you for all shipping costs, as well as providing ad copy for your website. I'm fairly good at this eloquence and precision of diction thing, which in a negative light could be called rabble rousing. If the quality and speed is acceptable, you needn't worry about the cost of shipping.

As a person who waited tables to fund his education, I also understand the value of the "tip" to persons in a service position. I'll admit to not fully reading your pricing structure, but you claimed about 1 Brittish pound per model. Rounded to 50, thats around $80. Shipping included, if the models were postmarked at the 2 week mark, above average turnaround, you could expect a cool $120 weighing down your bindle!

I can see this going quite well for both of us, is there any particular scheme you have in mind for these gaunts?

Past this post, please contact me through PMs to keep your thread from being derailed into our business dealings.
I'd want it to look fairly similar to this effect, which I've done some tutorials on, and I'd even send along a few bottles of the paint.


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Oh wow those pics are really god awful.

Doomthumbs wrote:Allow me to further sweeten the deal then: I will reimburse you for all shipping costs, as well as providing ad copy for your website. I'm fairly good at this eloquence and precision of diction thing, which in a negative light could be called rabble rousing. If the quality and speed is acceptable, you needn't worry about the cost of shipping.

As a person who waited tables to fund his education, I also understand the value of the "tip" to persons in a service position. I'll admit to not fully reading your pricing structure, but you claimed about 1 Brittish pound per model. Rounded to 50, thats around $80. Shipping included, if the models were postmarked at the 2 week mark, above average turnaround, you could expect a cool $120 weighing down your bindle!

What happens if he does win? I mean, if the quality is great (Im saying IF), cant you just not go through with your deal?
the quality seems like its getting better, judging by his most recent model in his gallery.


Id give it a 1.5 level. the flames need work on. Sorry about doubting your honesty. In fact, either of you could just send the model and get nothing in return. He could also get it painted at his LGS.

This is a little more focused and shoes the main effect I'm looking for, which would be on the carapace.

Namely, the turtle shell effect achieved by multiple successive drybrush layers. Doing this on 48 gants would lock you in as competent in my book, as it would require patience and planning.


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DAWARBOSS wrote:What happens if he does win? In fact, either of you could just send the model and get nothing in return.

I'd say he already has won, if it was indeed a "winnable" situation. This proposed deal is hardly big bucks stuff, on either end.
I'll admit that i was more than skeptical in the beginning. I'd go so far as to say I was a brutally mocking prick.
Change of heart has something to do with the fact that I strip and repaint gants just because its a Tuesday, and 80 bucks is around the amount I'd be comfortable burning to see if something is actually worthwhile. For instance, I'm gong to buy a Finecast tyrant just because I like the idea of a plastic tyrant. Also because I have been threatened with no sex if I do not make reparations for talking down to a person of limited temporal duration. That right there is worth the 80 bucks if I wish to avoid disease.
Plus, that I'll be receiving collateral makes this a minimal loss situation. Worst case scenario I get new bits to torture for my conversions.

I tried to stay out of this part of the conversation since it has little to do with the original topic, but I simply have to interject here.

WAAAAGGHH-god wrote:...tries to save time while typing.

This quote is bullshnizzle. You're not trying to "save time while typing." It is nothing more than bad habit, laziness, and an overall acceptance by society that has allowed this butchery of the written language. There is NOTHING you can say or do to make me even remotely begin to believe that you actually saved any discernible time by not hitting the shift key in conjunction with other keys a mere 4 times in the quote Doom used. It may have saved what? A half of a second, combined? If you are so pinched on time that you have to save HALF of a second, why are you online, typing on a message board? Quit slacking and go get your other stuff done. With a schedule so filled to capacity that you have to save fractions of seconds off of communications, where are you going to find the time to paint for people?

Again, bullshnizzle.

Doomthumbs wrote:My dragon is not actually real. Its a Carl Sagan thing, some brainy blah blah blah I'm sure you have no time for.

I found this unbelievable. How you intertwined pompous, condescending, speculative, insulting, and arrogant into a ball and force-fed it to "high and mighty" really blows my mind. So, because the guy is a minor and has lazy grammar habits he is clearly not intelligent enough for "some brainy blah blah blah" like Carl Sagan. Because he didn't capitalize after periods, he clearly does not "have time for" anything that that is considered intelligent, like Carl Sagan.

Again, unbelievable.



Not trying to start anything. I'm just pointing out a couple observations.
Speaking of which, since we're here...

Doomthumbs wrote:It's a Carl Sagan thing, some brainy, "blah, blah, blah" I'm sure you have no time for.

I'd just like to point out that you should make sure you're well away from your glass house before you start chucking stones.





Everything said and done, though, I would like to point out that Doom's ideas are sound and they very much echo my thoughts. I wouldn't want to enter any sort of deal with somebody that I can't contractually hold liable. Especially so with somebody not in my country. The fact that one could be held criminally accountable for something like theft means nothing. Who is going to pursue criminal charges in another country for a $45 dollar box of minis? It would cost more to do, the sentence would likely be negligible, and you likely wouldn't ger your stuff back. In addition, I would also like to echo Doom's argument about the capitalization and grammatical errors. If a person claims to use text message stylized speech to "save time while typing" then why should I believe they won't try to "save time" while painting my minis?

If I get in to a person's car for a ride and I find myself waiting for them to clean the passenger seat of the trash accumulated and I am up to my ankles in McDonalds bags and cups, etc. there's a pretty good chance his home is a wreck, too. They may not have the best hygiene practices, either.




Ghidorah
semi-unreleated: Cosmos is one of the best tv programs ever. Certainly one of my top three of all time.

Ghidorah wrote:So, because the guy is a minor and has lazy grammar habits he is clearly not intelligent enough for "some brainy blah blah blah" like Carl Sagan.

I'm pretty sure there should be a question mark in there somewhere. Most likely, it would be at the end. Another one for the next question as well, or else it ends up being a declaratory sentence in agreement with mine. Also, wasn't there supposed to be some commas in there between blahs?
The sentence before your signoff is also a run on rivaling the Boston Marathon.
How are we even insuring these glass houses?
You got me on my possessive apostrophe, though. Commendable.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSgiXGELjbc&feature=BFa&list=WL53DC919C932484C5&index=9

OT, PM dealings with "Shock" continue to be amicable, and quickly responded to. School is going to prevent timely completion, but only time will tell if it affects the quality of the paintjob. When/If I get my gants back, I'll post pics of the work.

Edits: cant seem to get an embedded video to work, but for those unfamiliar with the works of Carl Sagan, the link provides a nice treat.

Ghidorah wrote:If a person claims to use text message stylized speech to "save time while typing" then why should I believe they won't try to "save time" while painting my minis?

at what point have i used this text message style chat? the only fault i have made is not to capitalise my "i"s and the words at the beginning of my sentences. i still spell correctly and i still use proper grammar, so could we please keep this thread on the topic of the commission service, and not my typing style/ability

(Question mark)

WAAAAGGHH-god wrote:

Ghidorah wrote:If a person claims to use text message stylized speech to "save time while typing" then why should I believe they won't try to "save time" while painting my minis?

at what point have i used this text message style chat? the only fault i have made is not to capitalise my "i"s and the words at the beginning of my sentences. i still spell correctly and i still use proper grammar, so could we please keep this thread on the topic of the commission service, and not my typing style/ability

Dude, spelling has everything to do with your commission service. But, arguing the point with you is pointless, so I am simply gonna say this: take the time to capitalize your possessives, and capitalize the first letter of each sentence. It takes barely any more time at all to type the message, plus, it looks better. It is certainly faster than having to explain your reason to NOT write messages properly.

_Tim?

Doomthumbs wrote:

Ghidorah wrote:So, because the guy is a minor and has lazy grammar habits he is clearly not intelligent enough for "some brainy blah blah blah" like Carl Sagan.

I'm pretty sure there should be a question mark in there somewhere. Most likely, it would be at the end.

A+ for trying to be a smartass.
FFF for failing at it.

There is no question mark at the end because it wasn't a question. It was a statement. An observation, if you will.

Doomthumbs wrote:Another one for the next question as well, or else it ends up being a declaratory sentence in agreement with mine.

False. In both of these cases, it's all about context. I am making declaratory sentences that seem to agree with you and, in doing so, I brilliantly and sarcastically point out your flaws in an otherwise cookie cutter "I-am-much-smarter-than-you" (aka, huge douche-bag) reply .

Doomthumbs wrote:Also, wasn't there supposed to be some commas in there between blahs?

No, there are not supposed to be any commas between blahs. If you'll notice the pair of quotation marks, they indicate that I was quoting somebody (you) without using the quote tags of the forum. When you quote people, at least in our English language, all text/speech between quotes needs to be EXACT. Since you neglected to apply the comma key in your flaming of the OP's grammatical failings, I must negate them as well. If I were to quote your text, yet fix the errors within the quote, it would appear to completely invalidate my position that you, while deriding another person for their grammar, used poor grammar yourself.

Doomthumbs wrote:The sentence before your signoff is also a run on rivaling the Boston Marathon.

Looking past your obvious disdain for for the use of hyphens, Mr. Douchegrammar 101, you have shown your ass yet again. In the post of mine to which you are referring, the sentence before my sign-off is, "They may not have the best hygiene practices, either." Boston Marathon, huh?




This is like arguing with a first-grader. Listen to your girlfriend. Stop acting like a humongous douche.






OP: My apologies. I wasn't clear enough in what I was trying to say. I didn't mean to infer that you were typing in the 'texting' manner. I meant that the lack of capitalization is a symptom of that stylized communication method. That is to say, most people that type 'u', 'ur', 'b4', and 'wat' generally do not "have time to capitalize" either. Sorry if I ruffled your feathers. Not my intention. I'm just pointing out my belief that you did not omit caps to save time, but because you have a bad habit of not capitalizing. Hey, I am addicted to the lovely, lovely ellipsis... (see?)



King Ghidorah

Ghidorah wrote:In both of these cases, it's all about context.

Oh, ok. Since I guess we're doing this now let's revisit that context.

Ghidorah wrote:I found this unbelievable. How you intertwined pompous, condescending, speculative, insulting, and arrogant into a ball and force-fed it to "high and mighty" really blows my mind. So, because the guy is a minor and has lazy grammar habits he is clearly not intelligent enough for "some brainy blah blah blah" like Carl Sagan. Because he didn't capitalize after periods, he clearly does not "have time for" anything that that is considered intelligent, like Carl Sagan.

Not trying to start anything. I'm just pointing out a couple observations.
Speaking of which, since we're here...

Doomthumbs wrote:It's a Carl Sagan thing, some brainy, "blah, blah, blah" I'm sure you have no time for.

I'd just like to point out that you should make sure you're well away from your glass house before you start chucking stones.

If your goal was to lampoon me through sarcasm, your goals would be much better served with a question. As they stand, it is confusing and vague.
Further, "at least in our English language", adding of quotes and commas between the blahs would seem to have you wanting to attribute "blah, blah, blah" to the late Mr. Sagan. This is a "quote" he never uttered... (Hey those ARE fun!)

I too have made mistakes, and make no claims to the contrary. The sentence I intended to point out as an atrocious war crime against the written word is the one just before that.
Oh, and speaking of wanton hyphen abuse, whats with hyphenating "douche-bag"? If I Google that, Google seems sure that I meant either douchebag or douche bag.
"Did you mean: douchebag ", douchebag?


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Also, under which grading system does FFF occur?

Ghidora and Doom , no fight on grammar pwease?

My posts are the worst of all , so lets just all get along and ignore the unnecessary stuff please xD

shake hands and hugz!

Seriously. We're both Sagan fans, at least.
If we do not destroy each other, we will one day venture to the stars.

I would be most gratified to see peace in our times, gentlemen. Since we are only talking about one thread on an internet forum and not the territorial integrity of European nations and their colonial empires, perhaps you two could see your way to the proverbial handshake LunaHound mentioned?