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Zweischneid wrote:Cool enough. Mat Ward has proven to have a good enough grasp of the rules to hit the theme of Chapters.. such as, ya know, giving Blood Angels a focus on assault, Salamanders a focus on fiery close-range firefight, Grey Knights a focus on elite-psyker-brotherhood.

That's already far more than can be said for Kelly who would likely turn it into another utterly uninspired, counter-intutive spam-army or Cruddace who couldn't find his way through basic 40K fluff like the Hive War if he tried and would likely want to turn Templars into a rank-and-file WFB-army anyhow.

I approve!

He made Blood Angels like best friends with Necrons.
He made Grey Knight suitable to Chaos corruption.
I have a hunch that he will made BT closer to Ultramarines, maybe even reduce their numbers to 1000.

Brother Coa wrote:
He made Blood Angels like best friends with Necrons.

No he didn't. He introduced on uneasy, unspoken highly temporary non-aggression pact contingent on a full blown Tyranid invasion. Those are different things. Presuming that Necron (leaders) have some inkling of intelligence and strategic acumen, that episode is not entirely out fo the ordinary. In my opinion, it is quite a cool bone to popular doubles-tournaments too. In any case, it is lightyears away from the idiocy of Underwater-Thunderwolves doing Scuba-Swim-Battles or womanizing Bloodclaws going GTA on their Chapters Thunderhawks.

Brother Coa wrote:
He made Grey Knight suitable to Chaos corruption.

What Grey Knight succumbed to Chaos? The only thing he did was emphasise how their "immunity" to Chaos is the result of the dire, demanding and personal struggle of each and every Grey Knight, rather than some obscure, automatic "anti-corruption-vaccine" that it was before. Nothing was changed, unlike, say, Codex Writers who rip the entire established Hive War fluff a new one to ram their little "Swarmy" invention inside or re-write the Dark Eldar menace as a gang of misunderstood Emo-Elves with leaky souls.

Post heresy Night lords because I always like the underdog

Black Templars because they were my first army back in the glory days of Armageddon

World eaters because they are just so ANGRY

Zweischneid wrote:
No he didn't. He introduced on uneasy, unspoken highly temporary non-aggression pact contingent on a full blown Tyranid invasion. Those are different things. Presuming that Necron (leaders) have some inkling of intelligence and strategic acumen, that episode is not entirely out fo the ordinary. In my opinion, it is quite a cool bone to popular doubles-tournaments too. In any case, it is lightyears away from the idiocy of Underwater-Thunderwolves doing Scuba-Swim-Battles or womanizing Bloodclaws going GTA on their Chapters Thunderhawks.

So if Tyranids ever attack galaxy in full force the Necons will rise and help us fight them. And then return to sleep? Necrons are ancient killer robots, they have no mind of their own, they are automatons and machines who only serve C'Tan now all of a sudden want's to help the races of the galaxy to combat mutual enemy? Necrons don't have anything to do with us exept to collect our souls, why help us? Why not just phase shift and let Tyranids slaughter Blood Angels?
And it was not full blown Tyranid invasion, it was a splinter fleet.
And not to mention the mighty Mephiston who held alone against Tyranid attack for 6 hours ( which was ok, some marines can do it ), and who then tears CARNIFEX to peaces with his BARE HANDS ( wow, Chuck Norris rule ). And in the final hour of his defense, he charged the Tyranids? Killed every Hive Mind brood and Hive Tyrant and all of his guardians until he was hit in his back by Trygon ( I assume that he would kill him to with his hands only if the bastard didn't hit him from the back ).

Zweischneid wrote:
What Grey Knight succumbed to Chaos? The only thing he did was emphasise how their "immunity" to Chaos is the result of the dire, demanding and personal struggle of each and every Grey Knight, rather than some obscure, automatic "anti-corruption-vaccine" that it was before. Nothing was changed, unlike, say, Codex Writers who rip the entire established Hive War fluff a new one to ram their little "Swarmy" invention inside or re-write the Dark Eldar menace as a gang of misunderstood Emo-Elves with leaky souls.

Grey Knights, who are supposed to be purest and the most faithful of all Imperial servants need blood of Sisters for protection? And yet, those Sisters where there, and their faith has safeguard them from corruption of the daemon. They only retreat when suffered heavy losses. And after Grey Knights arrived, being better than Sisters in all aspects they should have no problem with that. But they cannot avoid corruption that Sisters can? Their action and ritual is more settling to Chaos worhipers than them. And it is the way of Khrone to slaughter your allies and bath in their blood. That's why are they now knows as Khornite Knights.
And yet, some of them are so full of faith and so incorruptible that they can take down Fallen Primarch and their guard with ease, and even carve their master's name into their hearts. And even be manageable to do so alone. Some of them can even be eaten alive by Grater Daemons only to make them explode from the inside.
They are even so awesome that they can call orbital bombardments on themselves and walk away like it was just a rain and hold down legions of daemons all by themself for 2 days without a scratch on the armor. And some of them are so awesome that they go trough warp like it is a walk in the park and kill daemons in their own reality ( talking about Chuck Norris rule ). They even crush city doors with their boot and entomb lords of change in the ruins. And they are so awesome that even Dark Gods of Chaos can't banish them from their own reality...?


I can't even imagine what will he do to Black Templars, especially when they are exact opposite to Ultramarines - Ward's most favorite chapter. He has openly talked against them in the past, now he is doing their new codex? He will either rise them to Emperor's level of glory or utterly destroy them. I just hope it will be the option 1, I don't want to see BT destroyed...

Zweischneid wrote:
No he didn't. He introduced on uneasy, unspoken highly temporary non-aggression pact contingent on a full blown Tyranid invasion. Those are different things. Presuming that Necron (leaders) have some inkling of intelligence and strategic acumen, that episode is not entirely out fo the ordinary. In my opinion, it is quite a cool bone to popular doubles-tournaments too.

Ah now, everyone and their dog thinks that fluff is aload of bull. I mean think of it. Humanity's greatest warriors, fighting along side an ancient sentient race bent on the death of every living organism in the universe....fighting with each other?! and then finding it 'distasteful' too fight each other after words?!

I think they should let Matt Ward write the army list, and Phil write the fluff.

Brother Coa wrote:And not to mention the mighty Mephiston who held alone against Tyranid attack for 6 hours ( which was ok, some marines can do it ), and who then tears CARNIFEX to peaces with his BARE HANDS ( wow, Chuck Norris rule ). And in the final hour of his defense, he charged the Tyranids? Killed every Hive Mind brood and Hive Tyrant and all of his guardians until he was hit in his back by Trygon ( I assume that he would kill him to with his hands only if the bastard didn't hit him from the back ).

Not sure what your beef is? That is NOTHING compared to Maugan Ra killing an entire splinter feet and defending a WHOLE planet all by himself!!!! (wonder how he managed to fight of the Tyranids on different sides of the planet simultaniously?).

Is 40K-fluff over the top? Sure. But whatever Mat Wards writes seems fairly tame compared to the drivel written by Cruddace or Kelly.

And not forget the brilliant Kelly piece about a guy called "the Decpatitator" wielding a weapon called the "the Decapitator" that he uses to "decapitate" people, hiding their heads away in his own private, secret "decapitator-dimension" that will end the universe. If Kelly would write the BT-Codex, we would probably get a Special Character known as "Bolter" who uses a "Bolter" to "bolter" people

Trust me. Mat Ward is currently the best pair of hands you could ever wish a Codex to be in: and by a very, very, very large margin too.

Zweischneid wrote: If Kelly would write the BT-Codex, we would probably get a Special Character known as "Bolter" who uses a "Bolter" to "bolter" people

ha ha hhhahhahahahahahaha
funny gak

Toastedandy wrote:
Ah now, everyone and their dog thinks that fluff is aload of bull. I mean think of it. Humanity's greatest warriors, fighting along side an ancient sentient race bent on the death of every living organism in the universe....fighting with each other?! and then finding it 'distasteful' too fight each other after words?!

At least they were fighting

In Kelly-fluff, they would have been joy-riding with a stolen Monolith and womanized among the Women of Baal (despite being, ya know, a-sexual and all that).

Zweischneid wrote:
Not sure what your beef is? That is NOTHING compared to Maugan Ra killing an entire splinter feet and defending a WHOLE planet all by himself!!!! (wonder how he managed to fight of the Tyranids on different sides of the planet simultaniously?).

Is 40K-fluff over the top? Sure. But whatever Mat Wards writes seems fairly tame compared to the drivel written by Cruddace or Kelly.

And not forget the brilliant Kelly piece about a guy called "the Decpatitator" wielding a weapon called the "the Decapitator" that he uses to "decapitate" people, hiding their heads away in his own private, secret "decapitator-dimension" that will end the universe. If Kelly would write the BT-Codex, we would probably get a Special Character known as "Bolter" who uses a "Bolter" to "bolter" people

Trust me. Mat Ward is currently the best pair of hands you could ever wish a Codex to be in: and by a very, very, very large margin too.

That guy who wrote that must be in the same team as Ward when he wrote that one Eldar ( no matter if he was Khane itself ) hold down Tyranid invasion of an entire planet??? Oh wait: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SciFiWritersHaveNoSenseOfScale

And trust me when I say that new BT codex will be more hated than Hitler and Satan together if it turn's out like GK codex.

Brother Coa wrote:

And trust me when I say that new BT codex will be more hated than Hitler and Satan together if it turn's out like GK codex.

NO! I will love it even if its the most under powered codex ever. If anything they are going to make it weaker. I mean, re roll all misses in combat? for 30 points?

Brother Coa wrote:
And trust me when I say that new BT codex will be more hated than Hitler and Satan together if it turn's out like GK codex.

The GK Codex is a brilliant book.

It has an exciting, challenging list to work with. It's by all first accounts a good middle-place in the overall balance of 5th Edition books (unlike, say, Space Wolves or Imperial Guard). It's FAQ/Errata is the shortest today (unlike, again, the Space Wolves one which, with over six pages of stuff that needed changing is nearly as long as the Errata for the entire 40K rulebook; and we don't even wanna start on Tyranids). The fluff throws some tangalizing bits and pieces (Terminus Decree) and ties in well with current BL stuff that Ward (unlike his two collegues) is evidently reading (e.g. Malcador the Sigilite, etc.. ). On the table, Grey Knights have already shown themselves capable of producing a great variety of different lists from Paladin-Wings over Purifiers to Henchmen lists (compare it to the ever-same Venom/Raider/Ravager-spam that is literally EVERY DE army out there; or the ubiquity of Long Fangs).

If the BT is only half as good as the Grey Knight book, it'll stand heads-above-shoulders above anything and everything Kelly or Cruddace have managed to piece together so far in their GW-careers.

Zweischneid wrote: Kelly or Cruddace have managed to piece together so far in their GW-careers.

What did they write? I know Kelly wrote the Dark Eldar book, and IMO its fantastic, fluff fits it, models are stunning. Not everyones cup of tea, but for what it is, its really good

Zweischneid wrote:
The GK Codex is a brilliant book.

It has an exciting, challenging list to work with. It's by all first accounts a good middle-place in the overall balance of 5th Edition books (unlike, say, Space Wolves or Imperial Guard). It's FAQ/Errata is the shortest today (unlike, again, the Space Wolves one which, with over six pages of stuff that needed changing is nearly as long as the Errata for the entire 40K rulebook; and we don't even wanna start on Tyranids). The fluff throws some tangalizing bits and pieces (Terminus Decree) and ties in well with current BL stuff that Ward (unlike his two collegues) is evidently reading (e.g. Malcador the Sigilite, etc.. ). On the table, Grey Knights have already shown themselves capable of producing a great variety of different lists from Paladin-Wings over Purifiers to Henchmen lists (compare it to the ever-same Venom/Raider/Ravager-spam that is literally EVERY DE army out there; or the ubiquity of Long Fangs).

If the BT is only half as good as the Grey Knight book, it'll stand heads-above-shoulders above anything and everything Kelly or Cruddace have managed to piece together so far in their GW-careers.

What?

It was fail, in fluff and rules. No matter all that up, what about other army's? The book is meant to bring balance to the game so that everyone can enjoy, insted it overpowerd Grey Knights like nothing else before. He give them rule to be virtually immune to plasma fire, and you call that balance? Tau can't do now nothing to them as 75% of their weapons are plasma, even Rail gun is that tech. And that Dredknight looks liek something from Matrix 2 and 3 mix with some Aliens robot mix.
And the point of rules for table is for every army to be balanced, if tabletop has rules like in 40k fluff the Marines would be the most powerful, 1 squad of Marines could virtually destroy entire company's. And in their new fluff GK are represent's like mini-Emperor's who rapes Daemons and even Chaos Gods - in WARP. This have taken the last grasp of reality from GK.

You are obviously some M.W. fan, and because of that I am not more talking to you because you are just ignoring everything we wrote.

I agree with Coa. Tau have a hard enough time as it is, now they litterally cant even scratch GK armour. The army list is good in the way it is so versitile. You could make rogue traders, elite coven of warriors anything could be made too fit with it. But they are overpowered. They have access to the best gun in the game, and the fluff is woeful.

Toastedandy wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:

And trust me when I say that new BT codex will be more hated than Hitler and Satan together if it turn's out like GK codex.

NO! I will love it even if its the most under powered codex ever. If anything they are going to make it weaker. I mean, re roll all misses in combat? for 30 points?

It's all misses against stuff with a WS for 50 points. Methinks you should reread the Templars Codex.

Brother Coa wrote:
It was fail, in fluff and rules. No matter all that up, what about other army's? The book is meant to bring balance to the game so that everyone can enjoy, insted it overpowerd Grey Knights like nothing else before. He give them rule to be virtually immune to plasma fire, and you call that balance? Tau can't do now nothing to them as 75% of their weapons are plasma, even Rail gun is that tech. And that Dredknight looks liek something from Matrix 2 and 3 mix with some Aliens robot mix.
And the point of rules for table is for every army to be balanced, if tabletop has rules like in 40k fluff the Marines would be the most powerful, 1 squad of Marines could virtually destroy entire company's. And in their new fluff GK are represent's like mini-Emperor's who rapes Daemons and even Chaos Gods - in WARP. This have taken the last grasp of reality from GK.

You are obviously some M.W. fan, and because of that I am not more talking to you because you are just ignoring everything we wrote.

1. Tau do need an update, a given. But an Ordo Xenos artifact that works against.. well.. Xenos? Shockingly unfluffy I guess! Also, it has a range of 12". Nothing that will cripple Tau (more than they are).

2. Dreadknight at least looks like it could walk, unlike the stunty-legged, knee-less unbalanced Dreadnaught-metal-boxes. I am aware of the limitations of early 1990s metal-miniatures; but with the new plastic casting, all current Dreads should be phased-out in favour of things like the Dreadknight that could conceivable actually walk. Also, it looks brilliant. Far better than any Emo-Elf model release so far.

3. Didn't you link that sci-fi-scales-problem-TV-thrope above? It's 40K. It's over the top. A given. A one-man-guerilla-war against Daemons is still more plausible than a one-man planetary defense against a Tyranid Hive Fleet. Draigo "only" survives. Maugan Ra exterminated an entire civilizations' worth of rabid attack-organisms bio-engineered to eat the galaxy. And he didn't even run out of ammo.

Zweischneid wrote:. A one-man-guerilla-war against Daemons is still more plausible than a one-man planetary defense against a Tyranid Hive Fleet. Draigo "only" survives. Maugan Ra exterminated an entire civilizations' worth of rabid attack-organisms bio-engineered to eat the galaxy. And he didn't even run out of ammo.

No, neither is more believable. A Daemon world is a seething mass of blood and spikey bits. Carving his name in a PRIMARCHS heart, a daemonified primarch at that. Smashing apart daemon cities etc. But TBH its hard to argue with such obviously biased post

Brother Coa wrote:

Zweischneid wrote:
The GK Codex is a brilliant book.

It has an exciting, challenging list to work with. It's by all first accounts a good middle-place in the overall balance of 5th Edition books (unlike, say, Space Wolves or Imperial Guard). It's FAQ/Errata is the shortest today (unlike, again, the Space Wolves one which, with over six pages of stuff that needed changing is nearly as long as the Errata for the entire 40K rulebook; and we don't even wanna start on Tyranids). The fluff throws some tangalizing bits and pieces (Terminus Decree) and ties in well with current BL stuff that Ward (unlike his two collegues) is evidently reading (e.g. Malcador the Sigilite, etc.. ). On the table, Grey Knights have already shown themselves capable of producing a great variety of different lists from Paladin-Wings over Purifiers to Henchmen lists (compare it to the ever-same Venom/Raider/Ravager-spam that is literally EVERY DE army out there; or the ubiquity of Long Fangs).

If the BT is only half as good as the Grey Knight book, it'll stand heads-above-shoulders above anything and everything Kelly or Cruddace have managed to piece together so far in their GW-careers.

What?

It was fail, in fluff and rules. No matter all that up, what about other army's? The book is meant to bring balance to the game so that everyone can enjoy, insted it overpowerd Grey Knights like nothing else before. He give them rule to be virtually immune to plasma fire, and you call that balance? Tau can't do now nothing to them as 75% of their weapons are plasma, even Rail gun is that tech. And that Dredknight looks liek something from Matrix 2 and 3 mix with some Aliens robot mix.
And the point of rules for table is for every army to be balanced, if tabletop has rules like in 40k fluff the Marines would be the most powerful, 1 squad of Marines could virtually destroy entire company's. And in their new fluff GK are represent's like mini-Emperor's who rapes Daemons and even Chaos Gods - in WARP. This have taken the last grasp of reality from GK.

You are obviously some M.W. fan, and because of that I am not more talking to you because you are just ignoring everything we wrote.

So, what you're saying is, that no one is allowed a different opinion to you?
The Plasma Syphon is a stupid and ineffective piece of kit, it doesn't effect the Railgun, and has a meager 12" range.
The Dreadknight I agree with you.
Wait what? The Grey Knights are now super-powerful Daemon-hunters!? No way! That's ridiculous, it's so unfluffy and definitely against the entire point of their existence! /sarcasm if it wasn't obvious already.
Draigo is a stupid piece of fluff. Maugan Ra is just as bad or even worse, there's no arguing with that and Mat Ward is definitely not the first to write something as over the top. Thundewolves anyone?

iproxtaco wrote:
So, what you're saying is, that no one is allowed a different opinion to you?

Welcome too the internet

Toastedandy wrote:
No, neither is more believable. A Daemon world is a seething mass of blood and spikey bits. Carving his name in a PRIMARCHS heart, a daemonified primarch at that. Smashing apart daemon cities etc. But TBH its hard to argue with such obviously biased post

Fair enough. But if, as you say, neither is more (or less) believable, than (bias aside, which I admit is favouring Mat Ward on my side; his writing just "flows" alot better and is more interesting to delve into compared to the more expositionary style of Kelly), neither Kelly's or Ward's writing could as a consequence be called more (or less) over-the-top than that of the respective other.

So i like the Star Phantoms.
They are pretty damn badass...

iproxtaco wrote:
So, what you're saying is, that no one is allowed a different opinion to you?

No, I am just saying my point. He has his and that's ok. Because we can write down stuff like this until 21.12.2012 I will not argue anymore and live others to express their opinions.

Wait what? The Grey Knights are now super-powerful Daemon-hunters!? No way! That's ridiculous, it's so unfluffy and definitely against the entire point of their existence! /sarcasm if it wasn't obvious already.

I knew that, but they are now super-powerful Daemon-hunters who eats Daemon Lords for launch and who are so powerful that they can be only struck down if they want to. Space marines are awesome at killing aliens and heretics to but they lose battles here and there, and there are limits to how many enemies they can take out. GK can now fight against Chaos Gods and kill them.

Brother Coa wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:
So, what you're saying is, that no one is allowed a different opinion to you?

No, I am just saying my point. He has his and that's ok. Because we can write down stuff like this until 21.12.2012 I will not argue anymore and live others to express their opinions.

It's obviously not ok because he's a "mat ward fan" so his opinions are apparently wrong.

Wait what? The Grey Knights are now super-powerful Daemon-hunters!? No way! That's ridiculous, it's so unfluffy and definitely against the entire point of their existence! /sarcasm if it wasn't obvious already.

I knew that, but they are now super-powerful Daemon-hunters who eats Daemon Lords for launch and who are so powerful that they can be only struck down if they want to. Space marines are awesome at killing aliens and heretics to but they lose battles here and there, and there are limits to how many enemies they can take out. GK can now fight against Chaos Gods and kill them.

iproxtaco wrote:
It's obviously not ok because he's a "mat ward fan" so his opinions are apparently wrong.

I said that so what? He is M.W. fluff fan and I respect that. I have difference of opinion with M.W. fluff, he likes it so our arguments can go until dommsday.
I am also Imperial fan, did I offend myself? I said to im2randomghgh that he is a Tau fan and did I offend him?

Woah there, calm down. Their fluff says absolutely none of the above, don't make things up. Fighting the Chaos Gods? I think you may be over-exaggerating to try an back up an already flawed point.

No, but I get that kind of felling while reading their fluff. Like they can take on Chaos Gods themselves in battle. And it is stated that even Chaos Gods can't vanquish Draigo from Warp. And he is just 1 Grey Knight.

purplefood wrote:So i like the Star Phantoms.
They are pretty damn badass...

Nice find man

sapce kittens (an army of oen of the girls i play with) pink armour, hello kitty on the shoulder of each using space wolves rules... so overpowered kittens .... also JoTWW renamed to ball of yarn... kitten plays with ball of yard then throws it those on the 24 inch line are overcome by cuteness and leave the battlefield to go pick flowers and skip in the field... and she once got my ghaz with it... imagine ghaz the most powerful warlord ever off picking flowers in a field after seeinfg kittens play with yarn

Toastedandy wrote:

purplefood wrote:So i like the Star Phantoms.
They are pretty damn badass...

Nice find man

I know right.
I find their story so much more compelling than most of the other chapters.

Zweischneid wrote:

Toastedandy wrote:
Ah now, everyone and their dog thinks that fluff is aload of bull. I mean think of it. Humanity's greatest warriors, fighting along side an ancient sentient race bent on the death of every living organism in the universe....fighting with each other?! and then finding it 'distasteful' too fight each other after words?!

At least they were fighting

In Kelly-fluff, they would have been joy-riding with a stolen Monolith and womanized among the Women of Baal (despite being, ya know, a-sexual and all that).

Or, y'know, they'd have acted in character and exterminated the ever-loving crap out of every life form to desecrate their tomb world.
Try reading Codex: Orks sometime, it might do your indigestion of Kelly fluff some good.

Now, on topic, I find it hard to decide between the Ultramarines, Space Wolves and Imperial Fists. All of them are, in my eyes, badasses in their own way. In terms of Traitors? Has to be Iron Warriors. I shouldn't even have to explain myself there.

Loyalists: Salamanders with Imperial Fists running a close second. Traitors: Night Lords, with Alpha Legion just behind them. As far as the traitors go, incidentally, these are the only two I like. I find the others to be nonsensical. (Which is an opinion rather than a fact. I don't like Chaos Marines in general, and in no way feel that opinion should detract from anyone else's enjoyment of them.)

Brother Coa wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:
It's obviously not ok because he's a "mat ward fan" so his opinions are apparently wrong.

I said that so what? He is M.W. fluff fan and I respect that. I have difference of opinion with M.W. fluff, he likes it so our arguments can go until dommsday.
I am also Imperial fan, did I offend myself? I said to im2randomghgh that he is a Tau fan and did I offend him?

"You are obviously some M.W. fan, and because of that I am not more talking to you because you are just ignoring everything we wrote."
Try to convince me that this isn't a derogatory comment.

Woah there, calm down. Their fluff says absolutely none of the above, don't make things up. Fighting the Chaos Gods? I think you may be over-exaggerating to try an back up an already flawed point.

No, but I get that kind of felling while reading their fluff. Like they can take on Chaos Gods themselves in battle. And it is stated that even Chaos Gods can't vanquish Draigo from Warp. And he is just 1 Grey Knight.