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when it comes to GW i never hold my breath, i just breathe as i like and take whatever they give me...

dajobe wrote:when it comes to GW i never hold my breath, i just breathe as i like and take whatever they give me...

Yeah, here's a pic of all of us with each new release.

agnosto wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:So basically, you're citing "Kill Team" and a battle that was at that time not in the Tau codex.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As a sidenote:
This lack of information and complete and utter stupidity of the timeline for Tau?

Yeah. This is why it's hard to have a discussion about the Tau.

Meh. You're usually the one that argues that black library books are canon. Cherry-pick much?

If you're going to cite my "arguments" about Black Library canon, you should cite my stance that a lot of it can be considered crap and completely ignored when discussing canon.

As much as I like Gav Thorpe's work on the Dark Angels and Fantasy, the Last Chancers were fething terrible and should not be considered at all when discussing "canon". I 'cherry pick' what can be considered canon within Black Library.
Namely: most of it post-C.S. Goto can be considered canon, barring the Cain novels and a majority of the 'one-off' Guard books which should be ignored because they're purposely exaggerated charictures of 40k itself.

Agreed, that's why arguments are inevitable with Tau discussions because GW was even more vague than usual when they wrote the fluff. Hopefully the next codex will be more consistant but I'm not going to hold my breath.

It's becoming more and more fleshed out, courtesy of Fantasy Flight Games.

agnosto wrote:

dajobe wrote:when it comes to GW i never hold my breath, i just breathe as i like and take whatever they give me...

Yeah, here's a pic of all of us with each new release.

lol, very true, i am GW's slave...

agnosto wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:
There's a difference. Censure is a fancier way of saying "warned not to do that again".

Wow, you're story is really different from this one:

Humiliated, Brightsword stole a ship and fled, looking for one of Farsight's Enclaves. But he had to stop to refuel on Fi'ri'os and so the newly appointed Commander Shadowsun and her soldiers caught up with him. In the middle of a street on a city on Fi'ri'os, Brightsword unsheathed a knife, cried "For Farsight!" and charged Shadowsun. Shadowsun replied by making her Fusion Blasters do the talking for her.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/O%27var

It looks like we have a conflict. The lexicanum says that he was killed by a IoM kill team, and it lists the source that you listed.

Whatever commander was in Kill-team was not killed by Tau forces... i remember the book pretty well, the name escapes me but Brightsword's view on humans matches the tau commanders' view on humans.

Kanluwen wrote:

TrollPie wrote:
And Tau very rarely kill anyone as long as they don't attack them. The only example where they weren't given the option of joining was Nimbosa

Incorrect. Nimbosa was given the chance to join, but Nimbosa did not want to join. The Tau then assaulted to "enlighten" the planet.

I don't have the passage with me right now, but I remember it was the only example of a time where the Tau have exterminated a population simply for not joining. It's not simply, "join us or die", it's more
"Join us or be attacked and subjugated."

where the commander of the strike force was executed for brutality.

Incorrect. Brightsword was not "executed". He was censured for the brutality he employed against the Guard he fought planetside.

There's a difference. Censure is a fancier way of saying "warned not to do that again".

Must've misinterpreted the passage. I simply assumed that was what they told the civilians...

TrollPie wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

TrollPie wrote:
And Tau very rarely kill anyone as long as they don't attack them. The only example where they weren't given the option of joining was Nimbosa

Incorrect. Nimbosa was given the chance to join, but Nimbosa did not want to join. The Tau then assaulted to "enlighten" the planet.

I don't have the passage with me right now, but I remember it was the only example of a time where the Tau have exterminated a population simply for not joining. It's not simply, "join us or die", it's more
"Join us or be attacked and subjugated."

where the commander of the strike force was executed for brutality.

Incorrect. Brightsword was not "executed". He was censured for the brutality he employed against the Guard he fought planetside.

There's a difference. Censure is a fancier way of saying "warned not to do that again".

Must've misinterpreted the passage. I simply assumed that was what they told the civilians...

I have the passage in front of me. in the tau codex, it is listed under the koloth gorge massacre. It's a little vague on exactly what happen.(and the tau codex dosen't include the end where the BT take the planet back) It says that the planet fought to the last and no soul was left alive. so the planet resisted and the tau killed everyone.

TrollPie wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

TrollPie wrote:
And Tau very rarely kill anyone as long as they don't attack them. The only example where they weren't given the option of joining was Nimbosa

Incorrect. Nimbosa was given the chance to join, but Nimbosa did not want to join. The Tau then assaulted to "enlighten" the planet.

I don't have the passage with me right now, but I remember it was the only example of a time where the Tau have exterminated a population simply for not joining. It's not simply, "join us or die", it's more
"Join us or be attacked and subjugated."

Well, yes and no.
It's also really the only example of a time where the entirety of a world or its government has refused the Tau--which may account for the brutality of the "regime change".

Usually, when the Tau annex a world either the majority of the population are for it and topple the government with Tau military assistance(either through weaponry, armor, and potentially Kroot support or through the Fire Warriors actually getting involved and "protecting" their new charges), or the reverse happens where the government proper is for the Tau and the population is basically apathetic towards changing one distant master for another.

In many of the latter cases, there's the chance a pro-Imperial Resistance will form and start striking at the Tau and government, but that's new information we're only really seeing thanks to Fantasy Flight Games' Deathwatch supplements(which are so strictly monitored in terms of canon-compatibility that it's insane).

where the commander of the strike force was executed for brutality.

Incorrect. Brightsword was not "executed". He was censured for the brutality he employed against the Guard he fought planetside.

There's a difference. Censure is a fancier way of saying "warned not to do that again".

Must've misinterpreted the passage. I simply assumed that was what they told the civilians...

Well, that passage is really vague so there's plenty of wiggle room for interpretation.

It's basically saying that there's "rumors of Brightsword being summoned back to T'au and censured for his brutality".

nomotog wrote:http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/O%27var
It looks like we have a conflict. The lexicanum says that he was killed by a IoM kill team, and it lists the source that you listed.

There are two versions:
In Gav's "Kill team", Ethereals hire a IoM Kill team to (successfully) assassinate Brightsword, because he is unbearable for the Tau Empire but too popular to be convicted by an official trial.
This source http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Commander_Brightsword tells the other version, but I also don't know where it comes from, although personally I find this version better fitting the fluff (Brightsword was indeed a pupil of Farsight).

2?

Rather one strongly "influenced" version and one following the written background.
I'd guess its the one inserting a different name for Lichtklinge and naming his parents that was "expanded".

Sources for Nimbosa:

- codex tau
- codex black templars
- cities of death
- sons of dorn

These 4 are the only i've read myself, so "kill team" may contain what 1 or both wiki's claim....

The Tau Empire is pretty small with a massive ideology. For an entire Gulf to join them means they most likely took billions without taking casualties or destroying territory.

They live in relative peace by 40K standards. They wage wars, but seldom for the glory of brutal conquest and always offer a place in their Empire for those who would join them. Hell, they even tried negotiating with the Orkz at first.

Like all rulers in 40K though, they are a police state that controls the people with absolute power.

Oh the Tau, trying to negotiate with the Orkz, that's just funny.

"What may we name you, green skinned friend?"
"Stops askin qwestions, fish ed', times fir foitin, not talksin"
"But you are invite to join The Greater Good, to help the races of the universe achieve equality and unity"
"Uni'y? Orkz iz da biggst da stongst, all you'z uther boyz are fir killin' and choppin, not fir freindin' and helpin'"
"We only extend the hand of freindship a few times, Orc, unite with The Greater Good or you will be destroyed, it is our manifest destiny"
"We'z not gonna lets you fish ed's be da Boss of us Orkz, WAAAAGH!!"

BeefCakeSoup wrote:The Tau Empire is pretty small with a massive ideology. For an entire Gulf to join them means they most likely took billions without taking casualties or destroying territory.

They live in relative peace by 40K standards. They wage wars, but seldom for the glory of brutal conquest and always offer a place in their Empire for those who would join them. Hell, they even tried negotiating with the Orkz at first.

Like all rulers in 40K though, they are a police state that controls the people with absolute power.

Funny, Humans were like that to. Before every other race tried to kill them and Chaos tried to eat their souls...
Tau will be no different after all that witch Humanity survived.

Kanluwen wrote:

agnosto wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:So basically, you're citing "Kill Team" and a battle that was at that time not in the Tau codex.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As a sidenote:
This lack of information and complete and utter stupidity of the timeline for Tau?

Yeah. This is why it's hard to have a discussion about the Tau.

Meh. You're usually the one that argues that black library books are canon. Cherry-pick much?

If you're going to cite my "arguments" about Black Library canon, you should cite my stance that a lot of it can be considered crap and completely ignored when discussing canon.

As much as I like Gav Thorpe's work on the Dark Angels and Fantasy, the Last Chancers were fething terrible and should not be considered at all when discussing "canon". I 'cherry pick' what can be considered canon within Black Library.
Namely: most of it post-C.S. Goto can be considered canon, barring the Cain novels and a majority of the 'one-off' Guard books which should be ignored because they're purposely exaggerated charictures of 40k itself.

Agreed, that's why arguments are inevitable with Tau discussions because GW was even more vague than usual when they wrote the fluff. Hopefully the next codex will be more consistant but I'm not going to hold my breath.

It's becoming more and more fleshed out, courtesy of Fantasy Flight Games.

Wait so one of the people who actually write for Black Library is wrong about the universe, but you who simply play the game are right That book was obviously approved so it has to be Canon

BeefCakeSoup wrote:The Tau Empire is pretty small with a massive ideology. For an entire Gulf to join them means they most likely took billions without taking casualties or destroying territory.

They live in relative peace by 40K standards. They wage wars, but seldom for the glory of brutal conquest and always offer a place in their Empire for those who would join them. Hell, they even tried negotiating with the Orkz at first.

Like all rulers in 40K though, they are a police state that controls the people with absolute power.

The first time the tau meet the orks, they shot them. Some kroot and orks where fighting out. The tau picked the kroot and killed the orks. I don't know if the tau actually talked to the orks after that. If you can find a passage that talks about ork migrations, I would love to see that.

Nicholas wrote:
Wait so one of the people who actually write for Black Library is wrong about the universe, but you who simply play the game are right That book was obviously approved so it has to be Canon

Shhhh. we can't have logic and reason involved in a Tau hate thread.

agnosto wrote:

Shhhh. we can't have logic and reason involved in any Tau thread.

fixed it for you.

Nicholas wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

agnosto wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:So basically, you're citing "Kill Team" and a battle that was at that time not in the Tau codex.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As a sidenote:
This lack of information and complete and utter stupidity of the timeline for Tau?

Yeah. This is why it's hard to have a discussion about the Tau.

Meh. You're usually the one that argues that black library books are canon. Cherry-pick much?

If you're going to cite my "arguments" about Black Library canon, you should cite my stance that a lot of it can be considered crap and completely ignored when discussing canon.

As much as I like Gav Thorpe's work on the Dark Angels and Fantasy, the Last Chancers were fething terrible and should not be considered at all when discussing "canon". I 'cherry pick' what can be considered canon within Black Library.
Namely: most of it post-C.S. Goto can be considered canon, barring the Cain novels and a majority of the 'one-off' Guard books which should be ignored because they're purposely exaggerated charictures of 40k itself.

Agreed, that's why arguments are inevitable with Tau discussions because GW was even more vague than usual when they wrote the fluff. Hopefully the next codex will be more consistant but I'm not going to hold my breath.

It's becoming more and more fleshed out, courtesy of Fantasy Flight Games.

Wait so one of the people who actually write for Black Library is wrong about the universe, but you who simply play the game are right That book was obviously approved so it has to be Canon

The book was approved and published under what amounts to "a different Tau" design direction.

You see this all the time in many long-running properties. For example, there's parts within the Star Wars novels that were published before Episodes 1-3 that clash directly with what has been set forth since the release of the prequels--and they basically have said "Ignore the old stuff if you're trying to establish a timeline, but enjoy it as a piece of fun literature".

Nicholas wrote:Wait so one of the people who actually write for Black Library is wrong about the universe, but you who simply play the game are right That book was obviously approved so it has to be Canon

You never heard of or read a book by C.S.Goto then, right?

nomotog wrote:

BeefCakeSoup wrote:The Tau Empire is pretty small with a massive ideology. For an entire Gulf to join them means they most likely took billions without taking casualties or destroying territory.

They live in relative peace by 40K standards. They wage wars, but seldom for the glory of brutal conquest and always offer a place in their Empire for those who would join them. Hell, they even tried negotiating with the Orkz at first.

Like all rulers in 40K though, they are a police state that controls the people with absolute power.

The first time the tau meet the orks, they shot them. Some kroot and orks where fighting out. The tau picked the kroot and killed the orks. I don't know if the tau actually talked to the orks after that. If you can find a passage that talks about ork migrations, I would love to see that.

Page 6 "Dynamic Expansion" in the 4th Ed. Tau dex talks about a numbers of fights with orkz before they abadoned any attempts at subsuming them into the Tau Empire.

Given that for Tau that meets diplomacy first, yeah, they tried to actually negotiate with Orkz lol...

I'd imagine the response was "Zog Off" written on the foreheads of the decapitated heads of the Tau diplomats. But by Ork standards I'd imagine thats a pretty formal and "propa" response.

BeefCakeSoup wrote:
Page 6 "Dynamic Expansion" in the 4th Ed. Tau dex talks about a numbers of fights with orkz before they abadoned any attempts at subsuming them into the Tau Empire.

Given that for Tau that meets diplomacy first, yeah, they tried to actually negotiate with Orkz lol...

I'd imagine the response was "Zog Off" written on the foreheads of the decapitated heads of the Tau diplomats. But by Ork standards I'd imagine thats a pretty formal and "propa" response.

Ah. I missed that part. Orks can't be that hard to work with though. Don't the other fractions use orks to do things? Can't the tau punch out a few orks, take their teeth and then buy some orks? My guess is that the tau just don't want to be friends with the orks.

They manipulate Orks. And no, because Orks are Orks, and Tau aren't. I can't imagine a Tau being strong enough to punch out a human, let alone an Ork.

iproxtaco wrote:They manipulate Orks. And no, because Orks are Orks, and Tau aren't. I can't imagine a Tau being strong enough to punch out a human, let alone an Ork.

The irony of truth....

Oh god that's such a win.

Awesome, it's so funny!

Unfortunately not relevant to the Background Forum though.

Try to get back on topic.

How do you think that Tau represent themselves to a new race?

I mean, how do they negotiate with different spices?

I saw that many alien races are not part of their Empire, but trading partners instead ( including some Human planets ). So it seems that they also take different approach toward spreading the Grater Good ( what better way to meet someone then to share it's own culture ).

Brother Coa wrote:How do you think that Tau represent themselves to a new race?

I mean, how do they negotiate with different spices?

I saw that many alien races are not part of their Empire, but trading partners instead ( including some Human planets ). So it seems that they also take different approach toward spreading the Grater Good ( what better way to meet someone then to share it's own culture ).

How do they negotiate with new spices? I don't think the Tau would negotiate with spices, they would probably just put them on their food and see if they like the way it tastes.

Brother Coa wrote:How do you think that Tau represent themselves to a new race?

I mean, how do they negotiate with different spices?

I saw that many alien races are not part of their Empire, but trading partners instead ( including some Human planets ). So it seems that they also take different approach toward spreading the Grater Good ( what better way to meet someone then to share it's own culture ).

Spices and Grater? Trading partners? Sounds like the Silk Road.
Back on topic, I'm sure before some engagements the Tau would offer peace and the chance to join the GG, if the other races agree, they are accepted into the fold, if not war. For imperials, the Tau would probably offer peace, something like ''join the GG or die.'' Then again thats just my opinion.

For one example, the Tau arrived at one of the Kroot planets when the Orks were fighting the Kroot. The Tau helped the Kroot to defeat the Orks, then asked the Kroot for an alliance.