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Seaward wrote:

Nvs wrote:The FNP is offset slightly by some of the changes to fast skimmers being more tough. Which is offset by them no longer getting cover saves, which is then offset by flickerfield.

So yea, DE will be an army to keep an eye on, but they'll likely be fine. And there's nothing to say they won't get FNP(3) also.

And like I said before, I think if the rules were total bunk someone would have said as much by now. There are a lot of people in the know around here and warseer who would have been able to write everything off.

A lot of people have said they're bunk.

Nah. They said they think they're bunk because they don't know what to think of them. If someone dependable (and by that I mean someone who consistently provides strong rumors/news) were to say the rules are false the threads would have been locked long ago. Especially on whineseer.

I wish I could believe any of these rumors but I see so many and no sources that its hard to trust any of it.

Really the only thing I want is a Black Templar army that is true to the fluff; mobile, awesome at hand to hand, versatile and more varied than the current codex. Options for the Emperor's champion and some new named characters would be nice too as would free grenades and bolter options like current MEQ.

That's not asking too much is it?

Smegmalicious wrote:I wish I could believe any of these rumors but I see so many and no sources that its hard to trust any of it.

Really the only thing I want is a Black Templar army that is true to the fluff; mobile, awesome at hand to hand, versatile and more varied than the current codex. Options for the Emperor's champion and some new named characters would be nice too as would free grenades and bolter options like current MEQ.

That's not asking too much is it?

This, this, a thousand times this!

I don't want a shooty army, I want an army that gets shot, roars like a wounded bear and proceeds to chainsaw their way through the enemy!

I don't see how they could make BT a ranged force anyway.

DA will likely turn into the ranged SM force since none of the others fit the bill.

Nvs wrote:I don't see how they could make BT a ranged force anyway.

They already have, that's the point.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Nvs wrote:I don't see how they could make BT a ranged force anyway.

They already have, that's the point.

Exactly. I play a CCW oriented BT army and it's not that competitive. Honestly it feels like shoehorning CCW into the army. All of the good BT army lists are shooting out the ass. That is completely counter to the fluff and to how the book seems to want you to play them. Also the Templars, as currently codexed, are not the super mobile, death from the skies win, attack and win at all costs army they should be.

Smegmalicious wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Nvs wrote:I don't see how they could make BT a ranged force anyway.

They already have, that's the point.

Exactly. I play a CCW oriented BT army and it's not that competitive. Honestly it feels like shoehorning CCW into the army. All of the good BT army lists are shooting out the ass. That is completely counter to the fluff and to how the book seems to want you to play them. Also the Templars, as currently codexed, are not the super mobile, death from the skies win, attack and win at all costs army they should be.

Unfortunately they gave that to the Blood Angels. I'm not too sure how they're going to do the Black Templars rules now.

Holy_doctrine wrote:

Smegmalicious wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Nvs wrote:I don't see how they could make BT a ranged force anyway.

They already have, that's the point.

Exactly. I play a CCW oriented BT army and it's not that competitive. Honestly it feels like shoehorning CCW into the army. All of the good BT army lists are shooting out the ass. That is completely counter to the fluff and to how the book seems to want you to play them. Also the Templars, as currently codexed, are not the super mobile, death from the skies win, attack and win at all costs army they should be.

Unfortunately they gave that to the Blood Angels. I'm not too sure how they're going to do the Black Templars rules now.

Better Drop Pods possibly? I'd expect some sort of Black Tide list to become viable again, to break up the monotone boredom that is all mech.

they will probably make Neophytes and your basic dudes cheaper or something.

maybe FC on all your basic dudes.

Or 2 attacks to the Initiates in the crusader squads.

Also, grenades. We need those.

In all honesty I'm expecting them to lose the rule that allows them to move after taking casualties. That was such an awesome rule too.

It doesn't really matter, does it? Current 40K meta means that, no matter how badass, hard-as-nails assaulty the codex is, everyone's ultimately just going to figure out the best way to spam as many Razorbacks with it as possible.

Seaward wrote:It doesn't really matter, does it? Current 40K meta means that, no matter how badass, hard-as-nails assaulty the codex is, everyone's ultimately just going to figure out the best way to spam as many Razorbacks with it as possible.

Which is why they should, IMO, penalize razorbacks. Sure, the Templars have it, but do they use them all the time everywhere? No way! Keep them costed like in the current Codex so that you can have them in your army but you're never gonna be the best at spamming them!

they will probably make being in an Exploding vehicle more damnning. like it was in 4th(you didn't want to be anywhere near an exploding vehicle, much less inside one)

they will keep the same damage chart, but if you are in a vehicle that explodes it will probably a 4+ for each model to live with no additional saves.

Wrecked will deal a Str3 hit to each guy inside.

I just don't understand Lazorback spam. Are they really that good? 6 man squads seem really weak unless you're running las/plas and at that point why the hell are you playing tempars?

Smegmalicious wrote:I just don't understand Lazorback spam. Are they really that good? 6 man squads seem really weak unless you're running las/plas and at that point why the hell are you playing tempars?

Razorspam MSU really isn't all that hot for the Templars, as they can't do it as well as the Blood Angels and the Space Wolves. That said, gunline is still the way to competitiveness for Templars, as sad as I am to say it.

Seaward wrote:

Smegmalicious wrote:I just don't understand Lazorback spam. Are they really that good? 6 man squads seem really weak unless you're running las/plas and at that point why the hell are you playing tempars?

Razorspam MSU really isn't all that hot for the Templars, as they can't do it as well as the Blood Angels and the Space Wolves. That said, gunline is still the way to competitiveness for Templars, as sad as I am to say it.

Agreed.

Yeah, Templars gunlines are more about the abundance of cyclone missile launchers than about lascannons or plasmas. For 210 points, you get a squad of three land speeders each of them with cyclone missile launchers. We have a tank hunting dreadnought with lascannon and normal missile launcher, and our terminators can get tank hunter with two cyclone missile launchers a piece. That's quite a bit of long range firepower.

But as said, it sucks that templar have been reduced to a gunline. The only thing I look forward to with a new codex, is them coming back as a melee army, I just hope it doesn't come at too high of a cost.

Amanax wrote:

Seaward wrote:

Smegmalicious wrote:I just don't understand Lazorback spam. Are they really that good? 6 man squads seem really weak unless you're running las/plas and at that point why the hell are you playing tempars?

Razorspam MSU really isn't all that hot for the Templars, as they can't do it as well as the Blood Angels and the Space Wolves. That said, gunline is still the way to competitiveness for Templars, as sad as I am to say it.

Agreed.

Yeah, Templars gunlines are more about the abundance of cyclone missile launchers than about lascannons or plasmas. For 210 points, you get a squad of three land speeders each of them with cyclone missile launchers. We have a tank hunting dreadnought with lascannon and normal missile launcher, and our terminators can get tank hunter with two cyclone missile launchers a piece. That's quite a bit of long range firepower.

But as said, it sucks that templar have been reduced to a gunline. The only thing I look forward to with a new codex, is them coming back as a melee army, I just hope it doesn't come at too high of a cost.

I will not play templars as a gunline army. That's just sad. I'd rather go down swinging than do that.

Smegmalicious wrote:

Amanax wrote:

Seaward wrote:

Smegmalicious wrote:I just don't understand Lazorback spam. Are they really that good? 6 man squads seem really weak unless you're running las/plas and at that point why the hell are you playing tempars?

Razorspam MSU really isn't all that hot for the Templars, as they can't do it as well as the Blood Angels and the Space Wolves. That said, gunline is still the way to competitiveness for Templars, as sad as I am to say it.

Agreed.

Yeah, Templars gunlines are more about the abundance of cyclone missile launchers than about lascannons or plasmas. For 210 points, you get a squad of three land speeders each of them with cyclone missile launchers. We have a tank hunting dreadnought with lascannon and normal missile launcher, and our terminators can get tank hunter with two cyclone missile launchers a piece. That's quite a bit of long range firepower.

But as said, it sucks that templar have been reduced to a gunline. The only thing I look forward to with a new codex, is them coming back as a melee army, I just hope it doesn't come at too high of a cost.

I will not play templars as a gunline army. That's just sad. I'd rather go down swinging than do that.

I don't want to play Templars as a gunline either, but I would rather, as you put it, go down swinging than bandwagon-hop onto the newest Codices. I stick with my army, for better or for worse, and woe unto those that call me a bandwagon-jumper come 6th ed Black Templars.