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Ahtman wrote:

lord commissar klimino wrote:

Ahtman wrote:Every human has also done good things in equal measure so you still haven't approached anything beyond a 'cynical teen' sort of attitude that doesn't constitute any kind of backing up of evidence that your statements are any more true than mine. You want to see people as bad you'll only see bad things, but that doesn't mean that humans are innately bad because you want it to be true.

cynical teen? im ending this right now before this gets out of hand i have my opinion,you have yours,i like mine better,goodby.

I said a 'cynical teen' sort of attitude, not that you were a teen. You also weren't the only person I was replying to, so you might want to put that ego in check. It is nice that you have an opinion, but just having it isn't very useful and it doesn't make you right. Have you done a lot of research into the subject? Read the great writers in psychology, philosophy, sociology, evolutionary ethics, ect? Or just going with your gut feeling based on limited anecdotal evidence? Even the most cursory of inquiry and you are getting upset.

what part of 'lets end this' did you not get.... aw well. i never said i was better than anyone,sheesh. and yes,there are "good" humans. but lets take a look at some others. hitler and osama to name 2. roman generals who kill just over religion. the templars. lots and lots of soldiers. terrorists. communist dictators who starve there people. the list goes on and on.

lord commissar klimino wrote: what part of 'lets end this' did you not get.... aw well.

I suppose the part where you don't get to decide for me whether I think an area of discussion is off limits for me.

lord commissar klimino wrote:i never said i was better than anyone,sheesh.

And I never said you stated that. Again, you are making up things instead of addressing the subject.

lord commissar klimino wrote: and yes,there are "good" humans.

I haven't now, nor have I in any of the previous arguments, argued that there are only two types of people: good and bad. Humans don't exist in binary states.

lord commissar klimino wrote:but lets take a look at some others.

Again, you will see what you choose to see if you go in with a predetermined answer. You want to see bad you will mostly see bad.

lord commissar klimino wrote:hitler and osama to name 2. roman generals who kill just over religion. the templars. lots and lots of soldiers. terrorists. communist dictators who starve there people. the list goes on and on.

For each of those I can produce examples philanthropy, altruism, and selfless sacrifice. That is before even going into the questionable nature of the list.

Ahtman wrote:I suppose the part where you don't get to decide for me whether I think an area of discussion is off limits for me.

i never said it was off limit to you..it meant please dont respond cause i know youll say something that i will have to respond to and i want it to end.

And I never said you stated that. Again, you are making up things instead of addressing the subject.

you said i had an ego. that means you think i was thinking high of myself. not making anything up.

I haven't now, nor have I in any of the previous arguments, argued that there are only two types of people: good and bad. Humans don't exist in binary states.

i never said you did,i was mearly stating due to your smart people talk that yes,people have done good things and been labeled good for them.

Again, you will see what you choose to see if you go in with a predetermined answer. You want to see bad you will mostly see bad.

i see what ive learned from experience. i want to see people good but i know most are or will be bad.

For each of those I can produce examples philanthropy, altruism, and selfless sacrifice. That is before even going into the questionable nature of the list.

yes,you can. and for each of those i can find an evil if i really want to. questionable? everything on there was evil,you deny it,you loose most your credibility to me. for things like romansi list the exact thing they did. i should of said for templar how they didnt only kill the enemy soldiers,but how they killed any Muslim.

Compare the amount of times people have done something good for personal benefit to good deeds for the good of it.

Soladrin wrote:Compare the amount of times people have done something good for personal benefit to good deeds for the good of it.

It seems you might be confusing 'why people do things", or more specifically why you think they do things, with what people actually do.

Good and evil are for the most part matters of perception and points of view Klimino...
For example one group of people may see Osama as evil...another group may see him as a maytred freedom fighter..it's all in who's doing the looking.

Fair point, but we should stop this discussion, cause it's completely derailed the topic.

FITZZ wrote: Good and evil are for the most part matters of perception and points of view Klimino...
For example one group of people may see Osama as evil...another group may see him as a maytred freedom fighter..it's all in who's doing the looking.

mostly true. but there are fine lines most of the world follows. murder is not legal,like,anywhere. just an example.

In the US we murder people legally all the time. So does China.

lord commissar klimino wrote:it meant please dont respond cause i know youll say something that i will have to respond to and i want it to end.

You are not forced to respond in any fashion whatsoever and I don't 'know that you will have to'. If you truly wanted it to end, you would just stop responding. Period. You wouldn't continue responding with how you want to stop responding. I will proceed to show you how this works.

Ahtman wrote:In the US we murder people legally all the time. So does China.

yes..caught and put in court...then having a lawyer prove your not guilty. as for chine.ive seen enough pictures,read enough news reports,and other stuff.china is just messed up.

lord commissar klimino wrote:

Ahtman wrote:In the US we murder people legally all the time. So does China.

yes..caught and put in court...then having a lawyer prove your not guilty. as for chine.ive seen enough pictures,read enough news reports,and other stuff.china is just messed up.

In "your world view" China is " just messed up."....doesn't make it actually so.
And I believe Ahtman may have been refering to the Death penalty when he spoke of "legal murder"....but I could be wrong.

FITZZ wrote:

lord commissar klimino wrote:

Ahtman wrote:In the US we murder people legally all the time. So does China.

yes..caught and put in court...then having a lawyer prove your not guilty. as for chine.ive seen enough pictures,read enough news reports,and other stuff.china is just messed up.

In "your world view" China is " just messed up."....doesn't make it actually so.
And I believe Ahtman may have been refering to the Death penalty when he spoke of "legal murder"....but I could be wrong.

its more of chinas big cities. and he never specified. beside,the guy dying isnt getting away with murder,he most likely committed murder. i guess the guy killing him is....

FITZZ wrote:In "your world view" China is " just messed up."....doesn't make it actually so.

The problem I seem to find is that many people consider their own worldview to be the correct one, and sometimes refuse to entertain the idea that to others it is not.

I fall victim to that all the time.

MrDwhitey wrote:

FITZZ wrote:In "your world view" China is " just messed up."....doesn't make it actually so.

The problem I seem to find is that many people consider their own worldview to be the correct one, and sometimes refuse to entertain the idea that to others it is not.

I fall victim to that all the time.

Indeed, and most of us do on some level, it can be difficult at times to "see" past our own perception of " how things are".

I've never got why people think video games turn you in to psychopaths. I played GTA: Vice City when I was 11, and it's not as if there's mounds of dead bodies in my back yard.

TrollPie wrote:I've never got why people think video games turn you in to psychopaths. I played GTA: Vice City when I was 11, and it's not as if there's mounds of dead bodies in my back yard.

You hide them in the neighbours then? That'll give you time to flee when they find the pile as they interrogate him/her/it.

TrollPie wrote:I've never got why people think video games turn you in to psychopaths. I played GTA: Vice City when I was 11, and it's not as if there's mounds of dead bodies in my back yard.

It's an easy target to point the finger at and say " See...that's the problem right there." rather than dig deeper into any real factors that bring about violent behavior...
Same with music...it's easier to blame the fact that little Johnny beat some ones head in on Maryln Manson than it is to try to figure out what really went wrong with little Johnny....IMO.

People have been committing acts of violence against one another long before the advent of video games...I believe it just makes for an easy scapegoat to get soccer moms in a panic.

EDIT:...Though I still stand by my original statement that video games are contributing to childhood/ teenage obesity.

IMHO it's not video games that make psychopaths it's *TO A CERTAIN DEGREE* psychopaths that make video games. After all you wouldn't make a game about wanton acts of violence if you didn't have that sub-concious desire to perform them yourself, granted for most people that urge is satified by watching say... a cluster of pixels in the shape of a truck barrel into another cluster of pixels in the shape of a human, but there are some that act out on it with more far reaching effects.

(again just my opinion.)

Skycrawler wrote:IMHO it's not video games that make psychopaths it's *TO A CERTAIN DEGREE* psychopaths that make video games. After all you wouldn't make a game about wanton acts of violence if you didn't have that sub-concious desire to perform them yourself, granted for most people that urge is satified by watching say... a cluster of pixels in the shape of a truck barrel into another cluster of pixels in the shape of a human, but there are some that act out on it with more far reaching effects.

(again just my opinion.)

Yes, but by that rational, Hollywood and the film industry is loaded with psychopaths...think of the body count in just one "action film".

FITZZ wrote:

Skycrawler wrote:IMHO it's not video games that make psychopaths it's *TO A CERTAIN DEGREE* psychopaths that make video games. After all you wouldn't make a game about wanton acts of violence if you didn't have that sub-concious desire to perform them yourself, granted for most people that urge is satified by watching say... a cluster of pixels in the shape of a truck barrel into another cluster of pixels in the shape of a human, but there are some that act out on it with more far reaching effects.

(again just my opinion.)

Yes, but by that rational, Hollywood and the film industry is loaded with psychopaths...think of the body count in just one "action film".

welll... i have always thought that most producers, directors, etc. are a bit odd in the head.

Skycrawler wrote:

FITZZ wrote:

Skycrawler wrote:IMHO it's not video games that make psychopaths it's *TO A CERTAIN DEGREE* psychopaths that make video games. After all you wouldn't make a game about wanton acts of violence if you didn't have that sub-concious desire to perform them yourself, granted for most people that urge is satified by watching say... a cluster of pixels in the shape of a truck barrel into another cluster of pixels in the shape of a human, but there are some that act out on it with more far reaching effects.

(again just my opinion.)

Yes, but by that rational, Hollywood and the film industry is loaded with psychopaths...think of the body count in just one "action film".

welll... i have always thought that most producers, directors, etc. are a bit odd in the head.

you may have a point there...

Overall, and this is just my opinion, while a fair number of "violent individules" may indeed be drawn to violent games/movies/music....I don't see that the games,etc are responsible for the persons violent behavior.

FITZZ wrote:

Skycrawler wrote:

FITZZ wrote:

Skycrawler wrote:IMHO it's not video games that make psychopaths it's *TO A CERTAIN DEGREE* psychopaths that make video games. After all you wouldn't make a game about wanton acts of violence if you didn't have that sub-concious desire to perform them yourself, granted for most people that urge is satified by watching say... a cluster of pixels in the shape of a truck barrel into another cluster of pixels in the shape of a human, but there are some that act out on it with more far reaching effects.

(again just my opinion.)

Yes, but by that rational, Hollywood and the film industry is loaded with psychopaths...think of the body count in just one "action film".

welll... i have always thought that most producers, directors, etc. are a bit odd in the head.

you may have a point there...

Overall, and this is just my opinion, while a fair number of "violent individules" may indeed be drawn to violent games/movies/music....I don't see that the games,etc are responsible for the persons violent behavior.

I would add, that such games/moives would draw that kind of person to play them.

Goddard wrote:

FITZZ wrote:

Skycrawler wrote:

FITZZ wrote:

Skycrawler wrote:IMHO it's not video games that make psychopaths it's *TO A CERTAIN DEGREE* psychopaths that make video games. After all you wouldn't make a game about wanton acts of violence if you didn't have that sub-concious desire to perform them yourself, granted for most people that urge is satified by watching say... a cluster of pixels in the shape of a truck barrel into another cluster of pixels in the shape of a human, but there are some that act out on it with more far reaching effects.

(again just my opinion.)

Yes, but by that rational, Hollywood and the film industry is loaded with psychopaths...think of the body count in just one "action film".

welll... i have always thought that most producers, directors, etc. are a bit odd in the head.

you may have a point there...

Overall, and this is just my opinion, while a fair number of "violent individules" may indeed be drawn to violent games/movies/music....I don't see that the games,etc are responsible for the persons violent behavior.

I would add, that such games/moives would draw that kind of person to play them.

Well yes...
But again, I don't really see the games as the cause of the behavior...

Example, My Mother would often tell me that as a child I would pull myself up in my crib and stare at the TV whenever "Dark Shadows" ( A vampire soap opera) would come on...
Now, was I predisposed to be drawn to " horror"...or did I become a "horror fan" due to early exposer..?

Video games do not cause kids to become bad people, bad parenting causes them to become bad people...

Think a game is influencing your kid the wrong way? Instead of blaming the game and ruining video games for everyone, grow a fething backbone and take it away from your kid, take responsibility for raising him/her for once.

As for the argument that videogames turn kids into aggressive killing machines, its unfounded in anything except "research" that's been twisted into "proof" by activists. Kids have a strong sense of reality vs fantasy, anybody with any knowledge of psychology could tell you that much, ever seen a kid play make believe with their friends around the neighborhood? Ever been one of those kids? The fact that they can pretend means that they can differentiate between what is real and what is not...

That being said, there may be exceptions to that, in such cases it again falls to the responsibility of the parent to raise their children right.

This whole argument has been born by nothing more than adults who want to blame their children's shortcomings on something other than themselves...

WARORK93 wrote:Video games do not cause kids to become bad people, bad parenting causes them to become bad people...

That isn't really true though now is it? There all sorts of examples of bad kids with good parents and bad parents that turned out good kids. I'm not sure where this idea became some sort of just known absolute truth.

Ahtman wrote:

WARORK93 wrote:Video games do not cause kids to become bad people, bad parenting causes them to become bad people...

That isn't really true though now is it? There all sorts of examples of bad kids with good parents and bad parents that turned out good kids. I'm not sure where this idea became some sort of just known absolute truth.

I never said it was an absolute truth, but its a good rule of thumb, poor raising will be followed by poor behavior...usually, its a major contributing factor at least.

There are exceptions to just about everything you can say about the matter and I do believe I said that...

WARORK93 wrote:

Ahtman wrote:

WARORK93 wrote:Video games do not cause kids to become bad people, bad parenting causes them to become bad people...

That isn't really true though now is it? There all sorts of examples of bad kids with good parents and bad parents that turned out good kids. I'm not sure where this idea became some sort of just known absolute truth.

I never said it was an absolute truth, but its a good rule of thumb, poor raising will be followed by poor behavior...usually, its a major contributing factor at least.

There are exceptions to just about everything you can say about the matter and I do believe I said that...

But we aren't talking about the occasional exception. You made the general statement that this was how it was and near the end a little aside about how it may not always be the case. You stated that "This is how X is", but then said "X isn't always this way". Doesn't the latter refute the former? The forming of an individuals identity is certainly influenced by their parents, but there are just as many non-familial influences. Thus it doesn't seem correct to say at all that "bad parenting causes them to become bad".

Ahtman wrote:

WARORK93 wrote:

Ahtman wrote:

WARORK93 wrote:Video games do not cause kids to become bad people, bad parenting causes them to become bad people...

That isn't really true though now is it? There all sorts of examples of bad kids with good parents and bad parents that turned out good kids. I'm not sure where this idea became some sort of just known absolute truth.

I never said it was an absolute truth, but its a good rule of thumb, poor raising will be followed by poor behavior...usually, its a major contributing factor at least.

There are exceptions to just about everything you can say about the matter and I do believe I said that...

But we aren't talking about the occasional exception. You made the general statement that this was how it was and near the end a little aside about how it may not always be the case. You stated that "This is how X is", but then said "X isn't always this way". Doesn't the latter refute the former? The forming of an individuals identity is certainly influenced by their parents, but there are just as many non-familial influences. Thus it doesn't seem correct to say at all that "bad parenting causes them to become bad".

You're missing my point entirely, I made that statement under the pretext that it is understood that bad parenting is not the root of every single instance of a bad person but is in fact a leading trend, hence why the statement is general. What you're asking me is does an exception to a rule refute that rule? And I don't believe it does.

However, that's not my point, my point is and was that if a parent has a problem with something their kid is doing then its up to them to fix that instead of making it into some sort of boycott...

WARORK93 wrote: I made that statement under the pretext that it is understood that bad parenting is not the root of every single instance of a bad person but is in fact a leading trend

That isn't actually what you said at all. It may have been what you meant, but it isn't what you said or how you presented it.

WARORK93 wrote:What you're asking me is does an exception to a rule refute that rule? And I don't believe it does.

I'm not asking you anything. I'm flat out saying you are being overly broad in your focus on what forms an individuals identity, especially into regards of 'good' or 'bad' person, and that i disagree with it. It isn't nearly as simplistic as your statements portray it.

Ahtman wrote:I'm not asking you anything. I'm flat out saying you are being overly broad in your focus on what forms an individuals identity, especially into regards of 'good' or 'bad' person, and that i disagree with it. It isn't nearly as simplistic as your statements portray it.

Alright then, you disagree with how I said what I said, duely noted.