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Imagine727 wrote:yes, but it is the part of the story that is most widely acknowledged

Because people don't like reading?

That doesn't mean anything. It just means people can be lazy and the artists are sticking to whatever's easiest for them, being primarily white nerdy individuals, to do.

Happygrunt wrote:I didn't get Vitrian Dragoons as being black, thought they were more middle eastern.

See, what I think throws a lot of people is the mention of their 'big book of war'(name eludes me right now). It sounds vaguely Middle Eastern/Oriental, and then not long before hand Abnett describes the Dragoon that Caffran is sharing a foxhole with as being an individual with a richly dark complexion or something like that.

htj wrote:Ah, yes, this thread. It's a popular and a contentious issue. Simply put: it's because GW didn't think of it, then when they did, they decided to un-think of it.

.

I think it's that.

Back in the good old days when the original GW crew were inventing 40K there probably wasn't more than 4% black population in the Nottingham area, plus a higher number of asians (6-7%). (For US readers, asian means people descended from inhabitants of the Indian Subcontinent.)

It's quite possible that all the GW staff were white, had all white schoolmates and so on, and didn't really think about the possible role of non-white people in the future scenario they were writing.

When the majority population operates in "colour blind" mode, it tends to ignore the presence of the non-white population. It's pretty much subconscious unless it is drawn to people's attention. Same for other majority-minority situations such as women at work, homosexuality issues, and so on.

I don't think there is any actual malicious racism involved even though they've had and ignored the chance to change things around.

I think comes down to white people don't think about the race thing as often as black people. Most likely they SM are white because the artist is white. Go look at artist over the past 100 years white people paint white people and black people paint black people (with a few exceptions). I am not saying that there isn't racism. But think about it if you picture the average person in your head most times it will look just like you including skin tone.

Do you slide into that category (white and nerdy)?

Imagine727 wrote:Do you slide into that category (white and nerdy)?

Yes, yes I do. I will go even further I am from the southern United States Purportedly the most racist place on earth. If you don't count South Africa

I am black and.... I wouldn't call myself nerdy, but I have interests which other people may find boring

If you're playing 40k--you're a nerd.

We don't hide our shame here. We don't see skin color, sexual orientation, or body types here.

We're all nerds!

Imagine727 wrote:I am black and.... I wouldn't call myself nerdy, but I have interests which other people may find boring

Just out of curiosity...do you find yourself getting " strange glances" when you walk into a FLGS...
My Missus (who is Black) on occasion will run by the FLGS for me and always comes home with some amusing story about patron/staff reactions.

NNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
wats flgs

Imagine727 wrote:NNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
wats flgs

FLGS= "Friendly Local Game Shop/Store"

Not really. I just noticed that the manager at my local GW was a bit over enthusiastic to sell me something lol

Imagine727 wrote:Not really. I just noticed that the manager at my local GW was a bit over enthusiastic to sell me something lol

...That's true for any race that walks through the door...equality through capitalism I suppose...

Just wondering because the Missus has made comments like ..." They acted like they've never seen a Black person before.."
To witch I laughed and replied " Naw, I think it's that your a woman...most of them haven't seen women up close."...

So to recap. Most SM are white because they were created by white nerdy guys. While that is somewhat racist it wasn't meant to be blatant or malicious. The thread is a success because it didn't degrade in to name calling and finger pointing and the gnashing of teeth and the waving of fist was avoided.

Good Job!

True, by the way, how old do you think I am?

Imagine727 wrote:True, by the way, how old do you think I am?

Going back to what I said before I imagine everyone on Dakka is a 30 - 38ish white guy from Texas.

I'm *** lol

Kilkrazy Mod edit: Thank you. We don't encourage members to advertise their age until they are old enough to count as Grognards.

EDIT: Please excuse the spelling and grammar, writing this while in math class.

Honestly, I dont think its about race.

According to a few studies. As humanity continues to expand and inter merry. In the long run. We will all be one race. Resulting in the population being a cream coffee color, light to medium brown.

I have native american heritage. So I'm light brown most of the time, though while working third shift, I became white, as I hadnt been exposed to a decent amount of sun light for a full year.

In battle, you cover your skin, anything exposed is a hazard. In space travel, your not exposed to sunlight. In hive cities, your not exposed to sun.

I would assume, that after 40,000 years, man kind would evolve to have less melanin in their skin. As it didnt take terrible long from when groups left Africa to loose their coloration, because they had less sun exposure. They had to cover up because of the cold. And the "White" race came into exsistance.

All aspects of appearance are types of mutations. Mutation isnt always a bad thing, its how we improve and adapt.

Darker skinned people are more resistant to skin cancer, So honestly I would assume most space marines should be dark skinned. Though it is assumed they have other means of avoiding the various cancers.

my thoughts on the subject.

I know race is a touchy subject. It would be naive of me to think that racism doesn't exist. It would be true for me. But I am white. I have never experienced true racism or prejudice. The only thing I know about being black is, that I have know idea what it's like being black.

thank you for your input

I really doubt it's serious racism, as highlighted above. Rather, a lazy oversight by a mostly Caucasian territory. As somebody above pointed out, the Crimson Fists have many Hispanic names in it, implying that they are primarily composed of Hispanic people.

I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned the White Scars yet either. Aren't they primarily Asian themselves?

I've seen old Salamander models painted with darker skin tones as well, weren't they dark skinned before they were black skinned and red eyed? Before I knew about that change I was going to paint some marines Salamanders colors, and I burn in the sun with any suntan lotion under SPF 80.

At my FLGS we have one Hispanic guy that comes in and the rest are white. I live in Connecticut, which is (I guess, politely correct me if I'm wrong) a pretty ethnically diverse state. He has no problem with how GW chooses to display their product.

My younger brother is black while I'm a sick, pasty white, so I've always embraced diversity.

In this thread, I find myself agreeing with Kanluwen on everything. It's also not exclusive to Space Marines but 40k in general - and even beyond 40k!

As others have said, white people paint white people - unless they specifically focus on painting something else (either due to personal preferences or some kind of quota or because it's one of those rare exceptions where people are including variation for its own sake).

That said, there's one GW picture that includes a black Seraphim, so at least one artist kept diversity in mind.

Do you think you guys good get my other threads moving as fast as this one?

Imagine727 wrote:Do you think you guys good get my other threads moving as fast as this one?

No... if discussion isn't happening, then just let it die.

DBI

Justus wrote:I really doubt it's serious racism, as highlighted above. Rather, a lazy oversight by a mostly Caucasian territory. As somebody above pointed out, the Crimson Fists have many Hispanic names in it, implying that they are primarily composed of Hispanic people.

I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned the White Scars yet either. Aren't they primarily Asian themselves?

They're supposed to look more like the Mongolians, who if you look at photos of the Mongolians who live on the Steppes tend to look like the majority of Russians you see.

I've seen old Salamander models painted with darker skin tones as well, weren't they dark skinned before they were black skinned and red eyed? Before I knew about that change I was going to paint some marines Salamanders colors, and I burn in the sun with any suntan lotion under SPF 80.

They have always been described as 'dark skinned' with the mutation being present, at least as far back as I've seen.

At my FLGS we have one Hispanic guy that comes in and the rest are white. I live in Connecticut, which is (I guess, politely correct me if I'm wrong) a pretty ethnically diverse state. He has no problem with how GW chooses to display their product.
My younger brother is black while I'm a sick, pasty white, so I've always embraced diversity.

Clearly you are not as ethnically diverse as we are here in North Carolina.
We have three Hispanic players, an African American, and an Asian player in addition to four white guys(three of whom are old and crotchety, while I'm a whippersnapper at 23)!

(Joking aside, that's my gaming population right now. None of them have ever complained about "White folks dominating the game!" as far as I can recall).

That's funny Kan, I always thought you were a crazy 40 year old guy, maybe similar to your avatar.

Happygrunt wrote:That's funny Kan, I always thought you were a crazy 40 year old guy, maybe similar to your avatar.

He looks exactly like his avatar. He just looks old for his age...

lol

Happygrunt wrote:That's funny Kan, I always thought you were a crazy 40 year old guy, maybe similar to your avatar.

Good lord, I wish I was Leonard Nimoy with Nunchucks.

I wondered who that was...