Author |
Message |
 |
|
 |
Advert
|
Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
- No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
- Times and dates in your local timezone.
- Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
- Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
- Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now. |
|
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/07/29 01:15:56
Subject: Plasma Cannon vs. Missile Launcher
|
 |
Dour Wolf Priest with Iron Wolf Amulet
|
Plasma is only really good if you expect to be facing a lot of 2+ saves (eg, Paladin army). In a TAC list they aren't really worthwhile, but if you're making a tailored/fluffy/casual list then they will probably be a lot of fun for you.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/07/29 19:15:55
Subject: Re:Plasma Cannon vs. Missile Launcher
|
 |
Tinkering Tech-Priest
Sitting in the corner of The Eye Of Terror... crying...
|
look at SOFDC's avatar...
|
The person saying this is a chaos lord, NOT an ork
Firaeveus Carron wrote:Look! Rhinos! RRRRRRHHHHIIIIIIINNNNNOOOSSSSS! Our enemies hide in METAL BAWKSES, DA KOWARDZ! THE FEWLZ!! We...*Asthma attack* We should take away their METAL BAWKSES!...SSSSSINDRRRIIIIIIII!!!
CLANG! WHAT THE FETH WAS THAT?!
http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/1709686/
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/07/30 00:29:51
Subject: Re:Plasma Cannon vs. Missile Launcher
|
 |
Storm Guard
Salt Lake City, Utah
|
labmouse42 wrote:MM cannot be your only Anti-vehicle. The 24 inch range of MMs is not enough to destroy transports or long range weaponry, such as rifleman dreads.
You need a mix of weapons, and that's where ML and MM together work wonders.
Lascannons for long-range anti-armor duties. Automatically Appended Next Post: Well, I've put all of them together, and I have a very diverse weapon set, with one Lascannon, one Plasma cannon, a multi-melta, and a Heavy Bolter. Thanks for the input, guys!
P.S I have a ML from Assault on Black Reach, and I will continue to use that.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/07/30 00:38:05
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/07/30 07:07:38
Subject: Re:Plasma Cannon vs. Missile Launcher
|
 |
Proud Phantom Titan
|
Chuck Norris wrote:look at SOFDC's avatar...
well its not like the models themselves cost any more then they normally do its more that you pay a premium for the weapons as you can take 4. They can't be as cheap as long fangs as you can take additional models so that the heavy weapon is safer for longer. You can also combat squad into two units of 5 (each with a pair of Heavy weapons) which will further increase the time those heavy weapons last (not to forget that it improves your chances of killing more since you won't over kill targets).
Their biggest problem is that 5th is very much about mechanizing which they cannot do very easily. There are ways of protecting them but choosing other units that don't need protection seems to be a better plan YMMV.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/07/30 07:38:04
Subject: Re:Plasma Cannon vs. Missile Launcher
|
 |
Perfect Shot Ultramarine Predator Pilot
|
You pay a premium for the weapons, weapons which are largely immobile, and while you have the advantage of durability when you pile on the extra wounds and even the ability to combat squad and split your fire that way....by the time you do this you have driven the cost to absurd levels where I think I would honestly rather have a land raider in that slot instead. Would also likely be cheaper to do so...with more mobility and utility on top of it.
You just flat out pay too much for the privilege of having heavy weapons on foot with codex devastators at the moment. If you run em, stick with the missile launchers as they are the most versatile choices between the HB/MM/ML trio. Plas/Lascannons are just too expensive, if you must have these put them on your sternguard or tacticals.
By all means, run what you want...but I am not using devastators again at -least- until the next marine codex, and the above is why.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/07/30 07:43:00
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/07/30 08:12:36
Subject: Re:Plasma Cannon vs. Missile Launcher
|
 |
Homicidal Veteran Blood Angel Assault Marine
|
For the record, Blood Angels Devastators get all the options a regular Devastator Squad gets, and yet all the special weapons are cheaper. The standard squad of 5 with 4 Missile Launchers costs 130. In addition, it's easy to give Blood Angels Devs Feel No Pain. Long Fangs are still way better, though.
By the way, OP, the worst possible thing you can do is field a squad with 4 different Heavy Weapons. You guarantee that some of them are firing at unoptimal targets, and won't have enough firepower of any one type to make a difference. Heavy Bolters and Multi-meltas should never be taken either, for any reason. The Heavy Bolter simply isn't good at killing anything, and Multi-meltas will never get to shoot within Melta range if your opponent has any common sense.
|
Current Record: 5 Wins, 6 Draws, 3 Losses 2000 points
In Progress: 500 points
Coming Soon: |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/07/30 08:25:08
Subject: Re:Plasma Cannon vs. Missile Launcher
|
 |
Proud Phantom Titan
|
SOFDC wrote:You pay a premium for the weapons, weapons which are largely immobile, and while you have the advantage of durability when you pile on the extra wounds and even the ability to combat squad and split your fire that way....by the time you do this you have driven the cost to absurd levels where I think I would honestly rather have a land raider in that slot instead. Would also likely be cheaper to do so...with more mobility and utility on top of it. You just flat out pay too much for the privilege of having heavy weapons on foot with codex devastators at the moment. If you run em, stick with the missile launchers as they are the most versatile choices between the HB/MM/ML trio. Plas/Lascannons are just too expensive, if you must have these put them on your sternguard or tacticals. By all means, run what you want...but I am not using devastators again at -least- until the next marine codex, and the above is why.
How can you complain about the cost of devastators and then recommend sternguard? Sternguard are 25pts each so there is no saving in taking them over devastator; while a great unit i don't think you should be confusing their role by giving them heavy weapons (min cost for 125 + heavy weapons). They are specifically an anti infantry unit which pays to have an extra attack and special ammo ... giving them anything other then a combi-weapon is just plain wrong. Tactical marines are a great basic unit but they have some down sides. To get any of those free weapons you must take 10 models. Next you must make a choice whether to combat squad. If you do 4 models will be sitting with the heavy weapon doing little, if you don't the heavy weapon will largely remain unused as you move forward. (min cost 170pts) Devastators on the other hand can take heavy weapon from the get go and are only the base price, they do pay for the privilege by having more expensive weapons though. So Lets look at a unit with 2 heavy weapons, say two expensive lasCannons, that's 160pts. The unit has 3 spare wounds unit can fire a BS5 and BS4 lascannon. It has no confusion over roles can happily sit in cover and shoot away. Now if we stop comparing with infantry we do find better candidates for heavy weapons. Riffle man dread is 125pts or Predator with lasCannon sponsons is 120pts both much better choices
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/07/30 08:33:14
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/07/30 10:32:53
Subject: Re:Plasma Cannon vs. Missile Launcher
|
 |
Perfect Shot Ultramarine Predator Pilot
|
How can you complain about the cost of devastators and then recommend sternguard? Sternguard are 25pts each so there is no saving in taking them over devastator; while a great unit i don't think you should be confusing their role by giving them heavy weapons (min cost for 125 + heavy weapons). They are specifically an anti infantry unit which pays to have an extra attack and special ammo ... giving them anything other then a combi-weapon is just plain wrong.
Take sternguard. Stuff in rhino. Sit back and contribute to the anti vehicle fight/anti- TEQ fight until things close in (By their choice or yours.) hop out and rapid fire things down. There are more ways to use sternguard than loading them up with combimeltas and suicide podding them into the middle of the enemy army.
Unlike the devastator squad, I don't have more heavy weapons than the rhino has firing points, and I can actually move and use weapons more effective than a tactical marine bolter should moving be desired, or the rhino be shaken/stunned and I need to hop the squad out of the transport to shoot with -something-. Additionally, the increase in cost between min sized sternguard squad with plasma cannons or lascannons and a min sized devastator squad with missile launchers is 5 and 15 points, respectively. Frankly, I'll pay that for the extra CC ability and additional bolter ammunition to support the heavy weapons gladly.
Why do I reference the plasma and lascannon specifically with sternguard, and not the MM/ ML/ HB? Well, because you are correct. They are a chiefly anti-infantry unit, one that comes with the ability to defeat body armor from 5+ to 3+. Both PC/ LC allow the squad long range AP2, preference here being decided on whether you desire the blast or the perk of helping deal with the opponents transports at range.
While more expensive for the bodycount, the premiums you pay for sternguard actually buy you something worth the price tag, regardless of whether you have them sitting back and shooting or advancing with combimeltas.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/07/30 11:22:35
Subject: Re:Plasma Cannon vs. Missile Launcher
|
 |
Proud Phantom Titan
|
Stunning the rhino and jumping out only works if the target is within what 19"? It also means that the rhino is going be stationary; if you have to move (and/or gets out) you can't use those heavy weapons anyway.
I agree that podding is a quick way to get them killed, I also think that taking the pod does give me the versatility need to always be in the right place. VS a mech list you pod in and kill something expensive; so what if they die they've done their job. Vs infantry you can sit back and shoot (they have the range) and the pod can drop empty onto an objective. If they need a rhino there's always some one else's that can be used.
Personally wouldn't take devastators, though I would rather have them then give the sternguard heavy weapons.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/07/30 11:40:45
Subject: Re:Plasma Cannon vs. Missile Launcher
|
 |
Perfect Shot Ultramarine Predator Pilot
|
It also means that the rhino is going be stationary; if you have to move (and/or gets out) you can't use those heavy weapons anyway.
This is true. However it leaves them rather less vulnerable than devastators to things like mass splinter fire/all availible anti infantry being directed on them for lack of anything else to shoot at, outflankers, pod/ DS assaults wiping out the entire squad on arrival, being immediately tarpitted, and you never are left going "Well..where do I put them now..." when your opponent decides to keep his stuff in reserve and you are left with your DPA rule... Pick your poison, which do you find less unpleasant?
For me and the list I tend to run? Generally it's the rhino, if I take them at all. If I run a DS/pod heavy list, then into the pod they go.
Stunning the rhino and jumping out only works if the target is within what 19"
Stunned? 12 inches. Shaken or EA? 12+12. Not including the 2" disembark. Having the rhino also allows you to play LOS and tank shock games that a pod, or sitting around on foot does not. Rapid fire/moved range is 12 inches, regardless of whether you are firing standard bolts, kraken, or vengeance. Still just 12.
|
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/07/30 12:06:17
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/07/30 14:57:48
Subject: Re:Plasma Cannon vs. Missile Launcher
|
 |
Proud Phantom Titan
|
SOFDC wrote:It also means that the rhino is going be stationary; if you have to move (and/or gets out) you can't use those heavy weapons anyway.
This is true. However it leaves them rather less vulnerable than devastators to things like mass splinter fire/all availible anti infantry being directed on them for lack of anything else to shoot at, outflankers, pod/ DS assaults wiping out the entire squad on arrival, being immediately tarpitted, and you never are left going "Well..where do I put them now..." when your opponent decides to keep his stuff in reserve and you are left with your DPA rule... Pick your poison, which do you find less unpleasant?
Running pods is a lot about choosing what and when. If the problem is a tanks I'd hold my sternguard back and drop some thing else. With 2 attacks unless the DS/ flanking unit is really tough they've always been more then a match. DE are an odd enemy I'll normally dump the pod in as close as possible combat squad and destroy their ravagers If you use the pod well you can block them from at least some of the return fire; Ok ravagers not a massive amount of points but removing them does save your own tanks.
For me and the list I tend to run? Generally it's the rhino, if I take them at all. If I run a DS/pod heavy list, then into the pod they go.
Stunning the rhino and jumping out only works if the target is within what 19"
Stunned? 12 inches. Shaken or EA? 12+12. Not including the 2" disembark. Having the rhino also allows you to play LOS and tank shock games that a pod, or sitting around on foot does not. Rapid fire/moved range is 12 inches, regardless of whether you are firing standard bolts, kraken, or vengeance. Still just 12.
ah yes you could move the tank 12" (had them getting out and moving) and they can jump out 2" giving them about 24-26" those heavy weapons are still not shooting ... combi would have been a better choice
|
|
 |
 |
|