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woodbok wrote:

zeekill wrote:

Orock wrote:You are 17 so you likely havent played people younger than you. There is something fun about playing someone younger, mabye throwing the game a little, letting them do better than they normally would against you, so they get into the spirit and fun of the hobby. But overpowered lists are a bit like watching world champ baseball players play against bottom ranked AAA teams. The outcome is already decided, lets just see how rediculous it is.

Actually I purposely do not play younger players because I dislike not having at least some challenge. I'll just steamroll them, and that would just not be fun for anyone.

That's disrespectful. Don't say that younger players don't pose a challenge. Because no doubt there is a young person in the world who is better than you.

plus being 17 himself really isn't a strong position to bring the whole age=experience BS into anything

Stella Cadente wrote:

woodbok wrote:

zeekill wrote:

Orock wrote:You are 17 so you likely havent played people younger than you. There is something fun about playing someone younger, mabye throwing the game a little, letting them do better than they normally would against you, so they get into the spirit and fun of the hobby. But overpowered lists are a bit like watching world champ baseball players play against bottom ranked AAA teams. The outcome is already decided, lets just see how rediculous it is.

Actually I purposely do not play younger players because I dislike not having at least some challenge. I'll just steamroll them, and that would just not be fun for anyone.

That's disrespectful. Don't say that younger players don't pose a challenge. Because no doubt there is a young person in the world who is better than you.

plus being 17 himself really isn't a strong position to bring the whole age=experience BS into anything

Dais wrote:

zeekill wrote: when he tried to move the monster into positon on turn 2-3 (NOT TURN 1, or I would have let him re-deploy it) I called him on the 1" rule

See, in that situation I would have to side with him. If you agree it's a BS rule you should man up and let him nudge his models back a bit. There is no rule in the book that obligates you to do this but sometimes good sportsmanship means rising above your grievances. The fact that you called him out just because he was hasty in his desire to jockey for a good position just helps make it clear it wasn't about the rule in question, but his aggressive tactics, that is a different issue altogether.

Thing is again, if it was turn 1 I would have let him do it, but once turn 3 hit and my positioning 100% needs the monster to not do anything (and he had ample time to move it around the terrain by then).

Again, I dislike non-competitive play. Any rule, no matter how stupid, is still a rule. The only time I don't care is, like I said, when an extensive rules debate comes up. So next time when he deploys he will know of this rule, and while he was a bid mad before, he doesnt have to worry about it again, because he will remember now


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Stella Cadente wrote:

woodbok wrote:

zeekill wrote:

Orock wrote:You are 17 so you likely havent played people younger than you. There is something fun about playing someone younger, mabye throwing the game a little, letting them do better than they normally would against you, so they get into the spirit and fun of the hobby. But overpowered lists are a bit like watching world champ baseball players play against bottom ranked AAA teams. The outcome is already decided, lets just see how rediculous it is.

Actually I purposely do not play younger players because I dislike not having at least some challenge. I'll just steamroll them, and that would just not be fun for anyone.

That's disrespectful. Don't say that younger players don't pose a challenge. Because no doubt there is a young person in the world who is better than you.

plus being 17 himself really isn't a strong position to bring the whole age=experience BS into anything

By younger players I mean the ones that really don't know what they are doing. I see them play others and against each other, and I see their skill level.

zeekill wrote:

Stella Cadente wrote:

woodbok wrote:

zeekill wrote:

Orock wrote:You are 17 so you likely havent played people younger than you. There is something fun about playing someone younger, mabye throwing the game a little, letting them do better than they normally would against you, so they get into the spirit and fun of the hobby. But overpowered lists are a bit like watching world champ baseball players play against bottom ranked AAA teams. The outcome is already decided, lets just see how rediculous it is.

Actually I purposely do not play younger players because I dislike not having at least some challenge. I'll just steamroll them, and that would just not be fun for anyone.

That's disrespectful. Don't say that younger players don't pose a challenge. Because no doubt there is a young person in the world who is better than you.

plus being 17 himself really isn't a strong position to bring the whole age=experience BS into anything

By younger players I mean the ones that really don't know what they are doing. I see them play others and against each other, and I see their skill level.

Ah, I see what you mean. Remember though, adults who have just started will not know what to do either.

zeekill wrote:Automatically Appended Next Post:

Stella Cadente wrote:

woodbok wrote:

zeekill wrote:

Orock wrote:You are 17 so you likely havent played people younger than you. There is something fun about playing someone younger, mabye throwing the game a little, letting them do better than they normally would against you, so they get into the spirit and fun of the hobby. But overpowered lists are a bit like watching world champ baseball players play against bottom ranked AAA teams. The outcome is already decided, lets just see how rediculous it is.

Actually I purposely do not play younger players because I dislike not having at least some challenge. I'll just steamroll them, and that would just not be fun for anyone.

That's disrespectful. Don't say that younger players don't pose a challenge. Because no doubt there is a young person in the world who is better than you.

plus being 17 himself really isn't a strong position to bring the whole age=experience BS into anything

By younger players I mean the ones that really don't know what they are doing. I see them play others and against each other, and I see their skill level.

other older players might think the same of you, and I'm sure you were once one of these "younger players", I'm sure you wouldn't think older players were jerks for not playing you just because of you being less experienced and younger, like I'm sure these younger players don't think your a jerk for automatically assuming you would steamroll them, did it not occur to you that maybe one of them COULD steamroll you, but they don't play with that attitude all the time and sometimes just like to mess around with the TOYS they play with?

or maybe you could play on there level, believe it or not you don't have to bring your A game all the time, its only toys

Rules are important, knowing how to discuss the rules in a civil manner and call up people on rules at the right time is another matter entirely.

---

In casual friendly matches If you have a powergamer in your midst a good way of lightening up a game is to swap armies.

1. It provides a challenge for the power gamer as he has to try an win with an army not purely designed for winning.
2. Its a great way to show the powergamer that what he brought along wasn't really conducive to the general enjoyment of everyone else.
3. It is usually very funny to play. ("Hey guys I brought my lethal Imperial Fists of doom" .. "That's nice, but today you will be using Bob's Snakebite Madboyz Feral Ork Army")

It is a game
Sorry to state the bleeding obvious but you are getting in a bit of a state about playing toy soldiers.

By all means be competitive but there is no need to get so wound up about how others approach the game.

but for goodness sakes, "I am argumentative" is not a good way to approach the issue. Thought Dakka was a forum for discussion, not a killing field.

"When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning."

Reiner Knizia, game designer.

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:It is a game
Sorry to state the bleeding obvious but you are getting in a bit of a state about playing toy soldiers.

By all means be competitive but there is no need to get so wound up about how others approach the game.

but for goodness sakes, "I am argumentative" is not a good way to approach the issue. Thought Dakka was a forum for discussion, not a killing field.

Wasn't the first thing I said that if you dislike argument to not post?

Who cares if you are one end of the spectrum or the other? If that's your definition of fun then who is to stop you?

Need to reverse that quote in this instance...

Hate the player not the game.

In fact don't even hate the player... waste of energy.

zeekill wrote:

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:It is a game
Sorry to state the bleeding obvious but you are getting in a bit of a state about playing toy soldiers.

By all means be competitive but there is no need to get so wound up about how others approach the game.

but for goodness sakes, "I am argumentative" is not a good way to approach the issue. Thought Dakka was a forum for discussion, not a killing field.

Wasn't the first thing I said that if you dislike argument to not post?

Yeah, and it was hardly in the spirit of enlightened discourse. It basically lays out that you don't want a discussion, you want to rant.

htj wrote:

zeekill wrote:

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:It is a game
Sorry to state the bleeding obvious but you are getting in a bit of a state about playing toy soldiers.

By all means be competitive but there is no need to get so wound up about how others approach the game.

but for goodness sakes, "I am argumentative" is not a good way to approach the issue. Thought Dakka was a forum for discussion, not a killing field.

Wasn't the first thing I said that if you dislike argument to not post?

Yeah, and it was hardly in the spirit of enlightened discourse. It basically lays out that you don't want a discussion, you want to rant.

Its called a "debate" not a "rant." I actually wanted someone to present me with good argument, not to completely overpower others with my opinion while not letting them talk.

yeah right....

In which case there was absolutely no need to preface the OP in such an antagonistic manner and simply state that,

I actually wanted someone to present me with good argument

See, that's not how your opening comments came across. They came across like a straight rant, that's all I'm saying.

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:

yeah right....

You clearly have no good opinion to add here... so I'd appreciate it if you just dont post here anymore.

For the record:
That is rather a selective quote which I qualified it in a reasonable way.
You obviously only wish to hear your own opinions so I will glady oblige and remove myself from your ravings.

htj wrote:See, that's not how your opening comments came across. They came across like a straight rant, that's all I'm saying.

Rant or not, I posted backround info on the debate I was trying to start. No matter how it turned out looking it gave much more info and kept the thread on-topic for longer than if I just posted the question and nothing else.

My intent was to try to spark a debate. I don't really care about your comments on how I did so, as that's not the purpose of this thread.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:For the record:
That is rather a selective quote which I qualified it in a reasonable way.
You obviously only wish to hear your own opinions so I will glady oblige and remove myself from your ravings.

You never gave an opinion.... The only thing you said is that I should stop "ranting" (I.E. debating) and continued from there, before saying I only want to hear my own opinions.

Do I think my opinions are correct? Yes
Did I want to find a solid counter-argument? Yes
Did I find one? No

Kilkrazy wrote:"When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning."

Reiner Knizia, game designer.

woodbok wrote:

zeekill wrote:

Stella Cadente wrote:

woodbok wrote:

zeekill wrote:

Orock wrote:You are 17 so you likely havent played people younger than you. There is something fun about playing someone younger, mabye throwing the game a little, letting them do better than they normally would against you, so they get into the spirit and fun of the hobby. But overpowered lists are a bit like watching world champ baseball players play against bottom ranked AAA teams. The outcome is already decided, lets just see how rediculous it is.

Actually I purposely do not play younger players because I dislike not having at least some challenge. I'll just steamroll them, and that would just not be fun for anyone.

That's disrespectful. Don't say that younger players don't pose a challenge. Because no doubt there is a young person in the world who is better than you.

plus being 17 himself really isn't a strong position to bring the whole age=experience BS into anything

By younger players I mean the ones that really don't know what they are doing. I see them play others and against each other, and I see their skill level.

Ah, I see what you mean. Remember though, adults who have just started will not know what to do either.

I don't play most kids because they lack any intellectual properties and cry about losing alot. They seem to do the you were lucky take every time they loose.

Well, that's a bit of a generalization...

But yes, if you mean anyone below the age of 10.

I personally love teaching others how to play, even if it strains patience a bit.

I'm only 16.

So tell me, if for you the fun in the game is the victory, do you not have fun if you lose? Does the fun only start on the point of victory?

Did I want to find a solid counter-argument? Yes
Did I find one? No.

Did you not find Howard A Treesong's well reasoned response to be a solid counter-argument?

You brought up an example of a rules issue regarding a rule that you consider 'BS' in which you enforced the rule and another player reacted poorly. Tell me, does this kind of thing happen often? Will you generally let minor rules infractions slide, or are you very strict on every aspect of the rules?

The problem isn't "wanting to win".

The problem is "wanting to win so bad that you are a dick about it".

I play wargames to escape the stress of daily life, relax, and enjoy the escapsim of toy soldiers. The last thing I want to encounter is a TFG across the table from me that thinks toy soldiers is "Serious buizin3ss111" and acts like a douche bag the whole time...

the fact that the OP started the trhead saying "I like to argue, don't post if yopu can't take it (paraphrasing) is very telling me thinks and might hint at the problem.

So to sum up: You want to win? Great, just try not to be a tool on the way to victory...

Just thought I'd add another $0.02, if you lose and have fun, of course it means the game was played well. I'm sure everyone would rather lose for the sake of a better game, and, although you don't know it yet, that might be it: a sacrifice of sportsmanship over something that will end up being a crucial game-winning move.

It's happened to me before, always err on the side of gentlemanliness.

Reading all this made me wonder why I hate competitive play so much, it probably has to do with how we go about our victories. My brother and his gang are quite notorious at wanting to win at any cost, so that might be the source right there.

But you shouldn't have a problem with playing a competitive person, as long as they were cool about it. ie, you shouldn't mind their geared-up list, as long as it wasn't severely OP.

I mean, inappropriate victorious behavior is not the greatest way to go.

Fighting a hard list can be an exciting challenge.

There are games I've fought to get a draw, because the alternative was a loss because the other list and scenario was too hard.

That's another kind of challenge.

Minor Rules infractions, yes I do let them slide most of the time. But excatly what?, I'm just curious.

As for the 1" rule, I never said it was BS. The other guy called out BS when I told him about the rule. It's a stupid rule, but its one that can make or break a battle sometimes.

About losing, I do still have fun with the game if I lost because of a well fought tactical battle. I love that, although it does make me leave the table slightly disheartened.Still I have no issue with it, I'll get them next time. If I lose because of such dumb luck its unbelivable, I still somewhat have fun, we still move toy soilders around on a table, but I kinda have a sour taste in my mouth from dumb luck losses.

As for the counter argument, sorry. Completely forgot. It was late at night

warspawned wrote:
I also think that WAAC is, in general, more of an American stance - Americans strike me as being a naturally competitive people (am I wrong? I mean no offense with this personal observation), whilst most Europeans, for instance, are more laid back about such things in general. I'm not saying there aren't any competitive players throughout Europe, it just strikes me that the majority of articles/posts I see on WAAC/Mathhammer/the 'Meta-Game' etc, are from Americans, who seem to embrace the tournament scene with a lot of vigour (or at least a lot more vocally) compared to, say, here in the U.K. Is it fair to say the tournament scene is a bigger deal in America than in the U.K (country size comparisons apart)?

Then's there us Canadians who will let you have rerolls, take back moves if you misunderstood rules and prod you in the right direction until both sides ends up losing but sitting down afterwards at Tim Hortons for an Iced Cappucino talking about how fun the game is.

zeekill wrote:Minor Rules infractions, yes I do let them slide most of the time. But excatly what?, I'm just curious.

As for the 1" rule, I never said it was BS. The other guy called out BS when I told him about the rule. It's a stupid rule, but its one that can make or break a battle sometimes.

Out of curiosity, do you let that one slide when it isn't important?

broadcast wrote:
Then's there us Canadians who will let you have rerolls, take back moves if you misunderstood rules and prod you in the right direction until both sides ends up losing but sitting down afterwards at Tim Hortons for an Iced Cappucino talking about how fun the game is.

Man, I miss playing people like that! Catching people off with rules they're not familiar with is not how the game should be played in my opinion. Like when I play my Cryx list and encounter a newish player, and they say "I'll shoot that unit", I'll tell em "Not yet, you'll auto miss due to the stealth, this and this unit however you can hit". Unless it's an AoE weapon, then I'll cry inside.

MrDwhitey wrote:

zeekill wrote:Minor Rules infractions, yes I do let them slide most of the time. But excatly what?, I'm just curious.

As for the 1" rule, I never said it was BS. The other guy called out BS when I told him about the rule. It's a stupid rule, but its one that can make or break a battle sometimes.

Out of curiosity, do you let that one slide when it isn't important?

Sort of. I point it out so that people are aware, but after they shift it over a tad just to satisfy me I let them leave it at half an inch or 3/4 unless it really matters. I'm not going to climb over the table to personally mesure out every inch between each unit unless it matters (although I can imagine the looks I would get if I did ).