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Commisar Wolfie wrote:The ork would be happy cause it meant he got into the fight which is all that matters.
And I'd be all for hitting tau in he face with a thunder hammer too, Heck I'd happy to smack anything in the face with thunderhammers, now if only you could dual wield thunderhammers that would be epic.

BA death company can,psycho or not, most badass of the badass.

Belexar wrote:Looks nice, thought even if he's a captain with a thunder hammer I find it a bit unrealistic for him to go around slaughering orks and weirdboyz all over the place. Maybe it changes at different difficulty levels. The multiplayer does sound like something that will blow me away, though. I hope we can get Lightning Claws

I take it you have never played Deathwatch RPG.

That is all you do is take your four to six man deathwatch team and slaughter Orks and Tyranids by the thousands.

The tabletop game makes Space Marines look like punks compared to the RPG.

in the RPG which is % based a regular space marine has a Strength of 31-50, and his damage bonus is doubled and his power armor adds 20% to the Strength putting it from 51-70 for a basic space marine. and a single ork can only hurt the marine if he puts out at least 15 points of damage (Damage is D10+ Strength bonus, which is the first number of the Str score so a Ork with a 48 Strength has a bonus of 4) so a regular ork would need to roll a 10 on a D10 add his bonus of 4, for max damage and still falls short of wounding the Space marine. They need bigger weapons to hurt a mighty space marine!

The RPG shows how they are, 40k show a weaker version of the space marines for game balance.

In FFG's RPG, Marines can also never get corrupted, are completely invincible against lasgun fire, and their naked fists do more damage than an Inquisitor's plasma pistol to the face.

Please. That RPG displays Space Marines about as "accurately" as the Movie Marines list or this computer game. Play it for the fun it will provide.

Andy Hoare, writer for Black Library novels and Fantasy Flight Games RPG division wrote:It all stems from the assumption that there’s a binding contract between author and reader to adhere to some nonexistent subjective construct or ‘true’ representation of the setting. There is no such contract, and no such objective truth.

quite a few pieces of fluff have depicted space marine armour as invulnerable to laz fire, thats why CSM scare the shiz out f gaurdsmen

Power Armour itself is as good as invulnerable, but lasguns can still pierce the soft armour at the joints, and probably the eyes too.

but if memory serves some of the horus heresy novels hae references of power armour falling apart under fire, note this isnt from reading experience i only brought fulgrim today, my only black library experience is gaunts ghosts, and in that power armour is beast

Of course, it depends a lot on the Author; there are those who will kill off a few select characters whilst the rest bulldoze through everything using their plot armour, and there are those where even the most heroic characters are mercilessly cut down and marines die in droves.

However, seeing as though lasguns use heat, and power armour is essentially huge chunks of ceramite, the power of a lasgun is significantly reduced due to ceramite conducting next to no heat.

I don't know how earlier Mks of power armour would fare, but it would take a very large amount of concentrated lasfire to deal any significant damage to the ceramite plates themselves.

Fairfeldia wrote:quite a few pieces of fluff have depicted space marine armour as invulnerable to laz fire, thats why CSM scare the shiz out f gaurdsmen

Novels, I take it? Quite as many have also depicted the opposite, and I'm fairly sure that even codices mention some Marines falling to lucky lasgun shots. The fluff is created around the basics of the tabletop, so I reckon something that's able to kill a Marine there should be able to do it elsewhere - even if it's just a lucky shot into the eyes or between the joints.

Heck, if we were to go just by the Deathwatch RPG, SoB would also be armed with "civilian" bolters which would be so crappy that they have no chance against Astartes (which they fight fairly often as per the studio material - which clearly mentions their weapons are of the same quality too). Also, a naked Astartes is tougher than the armour he wears. Furthermore, autoguns lack the ability to do autofire. And the Deathwatch isn't part of the Inquisition anymore.
If you think that's an accurate portrayal of the setting ... well, it'd be your interpretation, and you are certainly free to have it. I just thought it should be pointed out that GW does not see any of these things as binding or "canon". Or anything coming from Black Library, for that matter. If you want quotes for this claim (in addition to the one from Andy Hoare, who worked on several of FFG's books - including the Deathwatch RPG), feel free to read this thread.

Don't get me wrong, though: I agree that CSMs or Marines in general should still "scare the shiz" out of people. I just don't really like the occasional portrayal as Hollywood-like invincible superheroes when it "de-values" other factions beyond what seems appropriate. For that matter and regarding this computer game, I feel with the Ork players.

The average lasgun doesn't have PEN. The bolters, of either variety, do. While an SOB is *unlikely* to win a 1v1 against a Space Marine, it is *possible*. But, by the same token, the SOB is not as built-for-warfare as the average Space Marine is.

Of course, a SM can lose an arm and continue fighting. Tear off an SOB's arm and she's pretty much out of the battle. She is, after all, only human.

Psienesis wrote:The average lasgun doesn't have PEN. The bolters, of either variety, do. While an SOB is *unlikely* to win a 1v1 against a Space Marine, it is *possible*. But, by the same token, the SOB is not as built-for-warfare as the average Space Marine is.

Of course, a SM can lose an arm and continue fighting. Tear off an SOB's arm and she's pretty much out of the battle. She is, after all, only human.

Ah...

When did you see 1 Sister against 1 Astartes? It is always several Sisters against 1 Astartes.
And why would Sisters fight marines? ( unless it is special case - like Space Wolves ).
And don't you worry, Sister are pretty tough to. Not as a Marine but tougher than Guardsman and there are more of them then Marines.

Brother Coa wrote:

Psienesis wrote:The average lasgun doesn't have PEN. The bolters, of either variety, do. While an SOB is *unlikely* to win a 1v1 against a Space Marine, it is *possible*. But, by the same token, the SOB is not as built-for-warfare as the average Space Marine is.

Of course, a SM can lose an arm and continue fighting. Tear off an SOB's arm and she's pretty much out of the battle. She is, after all, only human.

Ah...

When did you see 1 Sister against 1 Astartes? It is always several Sisters against 1 Astartes.
And why would Sisters fight marines? ( unless it is special case - like Space Wolves ).
And don't you worry, Sister are pretty tough to. Not as a Marine but tougher than Guardsman and there are more of them then Marines.

Theres always chaos space marines.

Jollydevil wrote:Theres always chaos space marines.

And they almost always get owned by Sisters.
Sisters only get owned by Necrons and Orks, and Imperial Space Marines.
And Imperial Guard ( forgoten about Kaurava )

Psienesis wrote:The average lasgun doesn't have PEN.

You mean AP? Yeah, but it's still enough to kill a Marine if you just roll lucky. I assume you don't need much penetration when your shot hits a weak(ened) spot, but that chance is sadly missing in FFG's RPG.
Actually, lasguns in the RPG are so weak, you can even become invulnerable against them as a normal human just by wearing power armour and pushing your TB to 50. It just doesn't "feel" right, if you catch my drift. I know that people like to call them "flashlights", but this is a little too much.

Brother Coa wrote:And why would Sisters fight marines? ( unless it is special case - like Space Wolves ).

Actually, this has been in their background since their very first appearance back in Rogue Trader:

"Every single day, squads of Battle Sisters descend upon unsuspecting departments of the Adeptus Terra, administering genetic and psychological tests in order to expose wrong doers, mutants and malcontents. Whole companies of Battle Sisters travel out to war-zones, to the fortress-monasteries of the Adeptus Astartes, to the fleets and to the scattered worlds of the Imperium. No-one is free from their vigilance."
- RT Core Rulebook

One may now assume that this does no longer bear any meaning, of course, since a lot of things have changed since then (especially about the Marines who got both stronger as well as more independent!), but then we have this:

"Another thankfully rare task of these forces is to hold in check the power of the Space Marine Chapters. The relationship between the Adeptus Astartes and the Adeptus Ministorum is at times strained, as some Chapters adhere to their own views of the Imperial Creed. In any other organisation this would result in excommunication, but the Space Marines are of course a rather special case. However, the Ordo Hereticus still maintains a watch over those Chapters who they suspect of having diverged too far from approved dogma. In such cases a conclave of Inquisitors will decide upon a course of action, and should an armed response be required this will often be entrusted to the Adepta Sororitas. Few Space Marine Chapters would be asked to move against another except in the direst of circumstances. Facing an entire Chapter of Space Marines is not a conflict many Imperial leaders would embark upon with confidence, but where there is no alternative the Ordo may order a mission sent against the command structure of the renegade Chapter in order to disable the entire organisation from the top down. The only force outside the Adeptus Astartes themselves with any hope of successfully assaulting a renegade Chapter Master and his attendant brethren may be an elite Strike Force of the Adepta Sororitas, led by an experienced and battle-hardened Inquisitor of the Ordo Hereticus."
- from an article in Citadel Journal 49, written by Andy Hoare

This is also reflected in a later White Dwarf (#302) article about renegade Marine Chapters, by the way. There's a fluff snippet about the Sons of Malice who got excommunicated for cannibalism, and the Inquisitor making the call requested a bunch of Sororitas Celestians for the assault on their HQ.

And then of course we have their attack on the Space Wolves in the latter's codex.

Of course, one could argue that these are all special cases. It's certainly not everyday business - but it is one of those things they have to stand ready for. And you can forget about this with the crappy "civilian" gear they got tossed in the BL/FFG version of the RPG. Not that this could not be solved with any houserules, of course, but in general I think the idea to basically invent two different categories of weapons was a very poor one. It's not as if Marines needed even more stuff to set them apart as more powerful, after all. And I maintain that multipliers for Unnatural Stats are just broken. TB is excessive already (see lasgun invulnerability for normal humans), but doubling it is just like reaching deeep into an already opened can of worms.

Brother Coa wrote:and there are more of them then Marines.

Actually, there's fewer. Less than 100k, at least judging by the numbers we were given in the codices and the 5E rulebook. They're just rather rare and very mobile, and for as much attrition as they suffer (the Order of Our Martyred Lady is currently down to ~300 Battle Sisters after the last War of Armageddon) the relatively steady influx of new orphan-novitiates from the Scholae always keeps pushing them back on their feet after a few years/decades.

Brother Coa wrote:And they almost always get owned by Sisters.

Wait, there's a piece of fluff where Sisters are actually winning a battle? Where?