Does the Imperial Guard really recruit from the elite?

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**kenshin620**

Well as said it varies wildly. I mean you do have everything from tribal warriors to british empire line infantry

About Chankov, I also agree he is the symbol of grimdark for the IG. For every Gaunt you have, you have 10 Chenkovs. But it works. Look at ww2, BOTH soviets and americans/british had to rely on mass attacks to take down german forces. I heard that in the african campaigns alone in some battles you had 20-1 americans to germans killed. By the end though the allies successfully bleed germany of their best troops.

As Lord General Castor said: "Sergeant it is a guardsmen job to die, MY JOB is to send them where they can die!"

**TechMarine1**

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:
Grey Templar wrote:
Chenkov is seriously testing that limit, if not over Guardsmens lives but over their equipment thats getting broken/lost in his suicidal charges. A commander who wastes equipment without good cause may find himself replaced.

Chenkov gets the job done and he gets it done fast. If the planet is liberated that much faster while you lose a few million poorly trained men (I assme that he does indeed use a large number of conscripts and the like), the losses don't matter so much because you can replace the losses and get the planet into productivity that much more quickly.

That said, his background is absurd. Executing a million men (I think) to form a bridge? What sort of army would carry out those orders and not just shoot him?

One that has a commissar and two dozen storm troopers standing behind the general.

**nomotog**

Grey Templar wrote:
SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:
Grey Templar wrote:
Chenkov is seriously testing that limit, if not over Guardsmens lives but over their equipment thats getting broken/lost in his suicidal charges. A commander who wastes equipment without good cause may find himself replaced.

Chenkov gets the job done and he gets it done fast. If the planet is liberated that much faster while you lose a few million poorly trained men (I assme that he does indeed use a large number of conscripts and the like), the losses don't matter so much because you can replace the losses and get the planet into productivity that much more quickly.

That said, his background is absurd. Executing a million men (I think) to form a bridge? What sort of army would carry out those orders and not just shoot him?

Like I said, He will get called to heel over equipment, not men.

All those Lasguns, power packs, and flak jackets those dudes were carrying cost money. Guardsmen are free, the Kit is not.

Well guardsmen aren't free. There are transportation costs, but he probably dose recover the equipment and his tactics help some of the heaver more expensive stuff. The guardsmen explode so the tanks don't have to.

**Retribution**

Lynata wrote:I'd say Chenkov's attitude is a good representation of the "grimdark" factor, though. Human lives quite simply are cheap, and just because several popular novel characters get promoted as the buddy-type (okay, that was exaggerated, though there are those cases...) doesn't mean that the standards of the background have changed. That said, there is lots of personal interpretation and preferences involved for all of us, I guess.

Same as with the Space Marines, by the way. From what I've read in the studio material (GW's Inquisitor RPG in particular offered an entire page dedicated to Astartes psychology), their genetical superiority and a lifestyle somewhere between self-reverence and eternal war commonly breeds a healthy amount of arrogance that lets them disregard the IG as "lesser men" and treat them accordingly. If you want to read how a GW writer treats the subject in a novel, I'd recommend the short story "Know Thine Enemy" from Gav Thorpe, which has a couple Salamanders fight next to an IG platoon. Poor Lieutenant almost gets punched in the face in that one for daring to suggest the Marines take some rest whilst his men guard the perimeter.

Of course you also have exceptions to that rule, though - such as the Space Wolves, as usual.

Aren't salamanders portrayed as being just as "buddy-buddy" with normal humans as the wolves? I thought it was one of their defining characteristics

**Arturius**

Brother Coa wrote:True, again... But why lose so many people when you can have 1 tank or heavy weapon and save some lives?

Tanks are expensive. Guardsmen's lives are cheep.

**Harriticus**

Chenkov has been playing too much dawn of war, he treats his Guardsmen like I do in the game.

Anyway this guy still has his job because he gets results and human lives are the resource the Imperium has the most of above all else.

**Lynata**

Retribution wrote:Aren't salamanders portrayed as being just as "buddy-buddy" with normal humans as the wolves? I thought it was one of their defining characteristics

It may depend on where you look (studio material compared to licensed product interpretation). That said, I know little about their Chapter specifics, only that they are apparently "adopting" a family as part of their traditions and have onyx skin, so I was looking at them in a more general "common Astartes" way.

Feel free to broaden my horizon, though - given that this short story is, in the end, a BL release and just Gav's interpretation of the Salamanders, it may be just as flawed as any other Black Library novel out there. I was pretty much relying on his insight as a GW designer and because it fit to what I've read in the official material in that the Marines in general don't treat normal people as equal.

**Retribution**

Harriticus wrote:Chenkov has been playing too much dawn of war, he treats his Guardsmen like I do in the game.

Anyway this guy still has his job because he gets results and human lives are the resource the Imperium has the most of above all else.

Playing as the guard it never feels right coming out with a really good kdr

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Lynata wrote:
Retribution wrote:Aren't salamanders portrayed as being just as "buddy-buddy" with normal humans as the wolves? I thought it was one of their defining characteristics
It may depend on where you look (studio material compared to licensed product interpretation). That said, I know little about their Chapter specifics, only that they are apparently "adopting" a family as part of their traditions and have onyx skin, so I was looking at them in a more general "common Astartes" way.

Feel free to broaden my horizon, though - given that this short story is, in the end, a BL release and just Gav's interpretation of the Salamanders, it may be just as flawed as any other Black Library novel out there. I was pretty much relying on his insight as a GW designer and because it fit to what I've read in the official material in that the Marines in general don't treat normal people as equal.

The super-human arrogance is a definite consistent quality among astartes, but i've always heard / read that Wolves, Smurfs, and Salamanders fall outside of this; not really sure of any official material to point to though, just common hearsay :p

**Grey Templar**

The Ultramarines may be more sympathetic with Mankind, but they still have their share of being aloof. Heck, Sicarius is a big d*** to even his fellow Ultramarines.

the Salamanders and Space Wolves are Space Marines that actually care.

**Arturius**

The Hellsreach novel has a whole section where Grimaldus and the Templars are super-pissed at theit Salamander backup for hanging back to protect civilians, rather than going off and attacking the Warboss when they had the chance.

**Void__Dragon**

Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:No they wouldn't.
You ever try fighting off a million-strong horde of children armed with air rifles and knives with, say, two hundred professional boxers? The kids still win.
Even at a troop level, the Guard can generally hold it's own - if nothing else, they outnumber the enemy, and in the cases where they don't (such as when fighting Orks or Tyranids) their training gives them an advantage over the less disciplined troops.

The key difference being that a shot from a rifle generally isn't going to just bounce off the skin of the boxers.

Las rounds aren't very effective against power armour, or the exoskeleton of a Necron Warrior.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

nomotog wrote:Is chenkov really incompetent. Cruel as heck, but I thought he gets results with his cannon fodder army.

A commander must be tactically flexible.

Chenkov is the most inflexible commander I can recall in 40k.

Every problem is handled by throwing men at it until it's not a problem anymore. The Stalin method.

**Lynata**