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with guide and doom backing a blade storm ive never seen much stay standing even a full marine squad just have another unit finish them off the trick is to hit the flanks and focus fire also if your wraithlord gets into CC with basic STR4 marines you will slaughter them you just have to get him there the T8 is beast against most basic troops have to have str5 to wound on a 6.

now if your planning on buy new stuff then wave serpents fire dragons and banshees with farseers will be your bread n butter

get 6 melta proof wave serpents and 3 falcons or fire prisims with holofields. Load up the serpents with dire avengers and fire dragons. Get a seer council or 2 and stuff it into a falcon with your farseers, or take uriel and put him with a squad of avengers or alone. Uriel is annoying with his lazer eye bomb and his insane initative - however farseers and warlocks can make sure your vehicles which are nearly invincible as is don't get scratched. One game I shot 9 twin linked las cannons at a single turbo boosted, fortuned, wave serpent and didn't even glance it! Annoying. With this list you'll make your friend want to quit playing as all you do is castle in a corner and shoot the gak out of him with all your str 6 spam untill something gets close, melta the feth out of it, then zip across the table to do it again. And of course you can tank shock with falcons and serpents even though they're a skimmer they're also tanks so you just zip to objectives at the end and push off any troops hanging around.

michaelcycle wrote:get 6 melta proof wave serpents and 3 falcons or fire prisims with holofields. Load up the serpents with dire avengers and fire dragons. Get a seer council or 2 and stuff it into a falcon with your farseers

That is great advice, but your suggesting that he spends over 400 bucks in models. I think hes looking for solutions with what he has, and that won't break the bank.

labmouse42 wrote:

michaelcycle wrote:get 6 melta proof wave serpents and 3 falcons or fire prisims with holofields. Load up the serpents with dire avengers and fire dragons. Get a seer council or 2 and stuff it into a falcon with your farseers

That is great advice, but your suggesting that he spends over 400 bucks in models. I think hes looking for solutions with what he has, and that won't break the bank.

Yea pretty much this, I have a verry limited budget when it comes to 40k, but on the bright side if I can get good with my list then when I do get some good units il own lol.

dreadanant wrote:Eldrad
6 s scorpions
2x 10 da, ex w bladestorm 2x cats
2 w/s t/l scatter lasers, shuri cannon. T/l eml
5 da, ex bladestorm 2x cats
5 pathfinders
15 guardians w eml, warlock w embolden
Wraithlord w eml and bright lance
War walker 2x scatter lasers..

I'm going to go with the idea that your on a budget and don't want to buy many more models.

Eldrad and Avatar
Hes a great model to use in a footdar army. He works really well when you pair him with an Avatar. If you were to buy one model for this army, the avatar is the one that I reccomend. The Avatar can throw his wailing doom to crack a transport and then kill every model in the squad. If you have Eldrad keep fortune on him every turn, hes very difficult to kill. His fearless bubble aura will make the rest of your army that much tougher. In assault, the WS 10 means that basic marines only hit him on 5s. When you combine that with the T6 avatar and his re-rolled saves, he will cleave through entire squads on his own.

Scorpionsr
These models are designed to kill non-power armor models. As your facing marines, the banshees are better choice. If you want to stick with scorpions, you will need to get an exarch with a power claw. The exarch will make this squad a lot more tough, as he will have 4 STR 6 attacks on the charge (that ignore saves). If you are tight on cash, you can get a lighting claw from a marine player, chop off the blades, and then put that on the hand of a scorpion. That's a cheap way to make your own, but if you can its better to just get an exarch.

Wave Serpents
Use these models to flank his army and take side shots. You don't need to keep your models in these transports for them to be highly effective. Use them to target his transports and take them out. Those shots on the side of his transports will crack them quickly.

Avengers
You can drop your 3rd avenger squad. You really only need 20 of them on the table to do everything you want. If your going to bladestorm, then you will want to make sure your doing it against a doomed squad. Doom will change half your hits wounding to 75% of your hits wounding, making a big difference in the overall effect.
I would take my other 5 avengers and turn them into 4 exarchs with power weapons and shimmershields. As an option, I would then field 4 squads of 5 avengers each with a power weapon in every squad. Power weapons are the bane of marines, and if you charge all 4 into 1 squad of doomed marines, you will see the marines evaporate.

Pathfinders
Good objective campers. Keep either these or the guardians.

Guardians
I would drop them if I were you. If your going to keep them, drop them down to 10 in size. You can consider dropping the warlock as well if your looking for points. The problem is their EML only hits 50% of the time, and for the ~120 points, its a poor investment. Their shuriken cats should be named shuriken craps. They just don't do the job.

Wraithlord
Great for taking out armor. Run him alongside your avatar and elldrad to ensure he can still fight.

Walkers
Good for outflanking. They can take your opponent unaware, which gives you a nice edge.

I see that your army is really lacking in the elite choices of your codex. The eldar codex's best units are in that section, and I would bring more dragons if I could. Throwing 20 fire dragons down will help to even things up a bit . That may be something to consider as you play more.
First of all though, get an avatar. That one model will change the way the game plays for you. Keep fortune on him, and watch him tear apart your enemy piece by piece. Your friend will grow to hate that model.

I would like to add that, since you're fielding a mostly foot force, vypers would actually be a wise investment. Arm them with the mandatory shuriken cannon to keep them cheap (I run 2 as separate choices at 1500). The point of them is you aren't mobile, because you're on foot, so you need to make your opponent even less mobile. So use the vypers to block points: Flat out in front of and beside any transports, block assault paths for dangerous units, and in general make his attempts to move almost worthless.

I had a fun time keeping a space wolf player with thunderwolves & long fangs in a boxed in area with my 2 vypers and a wave serpent. The thunderwolves didn't get a single assault against infantry for the whole game, and when you hit a vehicle on 6s it becomes really hard to get anywhere.

Or, you could go with another war walker to increase fire (which may work better as your main units are in wave serpents). I would advise that you drop your 5 man avenger squad all together to fill out the scorpion squad. Also I'd get the scorpion exarch with both exarch powers and one of the weapons (either the biting blade or the claw. I like the blade, but the claw is likely more useful). Drop the pathfinders down to regular rangers, as a sniper's damage output isn't worth a 24 point price tag. If you want the 2+ cover save, go to ground. You will probably not miss those 5 shots next turn anyway. For further points, drop the guardians down to a 10 man squad (but keep the embolden warlock and a scatter laser).

First of all though, get an avatar. That one model will change the way the game plays for you. Keep fortune on him, and watch him tear apart your enemy piece by piece. Your friend will grow to hate that model.

This would probably be the cheapest way to get an improvement (drop the 5 man avenger squad and lower the pathfinders and guardians should get you enough points) money wise. Just remember that you really need to keep fortune on him or have another very tempting target for enemy heavy weapons or he dies deceptively easily.

In general though, you need to learn to block enemy line of sight, guess ranges so you can jump out of your serpents in relative safety, and other such tricks. Playing with T3 infantry, learning how to do these is very useful.

Ail-Shan wrote:
I had a fun time keeping a space wolf player with thunderwolves & long fangs in a boxed in area with my 2 vypers and a wave serpent. The thunderwolves didn't get a single assault against infantry for the whole game, and when you hit a vehicle on 6s it becomes really hard to get anywhere.

Why didn't he just shoot or ignore your vypers?

Why didn't he just shoot or ignore your vypers?

4+ cover save from flat out move helped, as did slightly poor rolling on his part. However, I was able to position to keep his rhinos from moving (even turning) which added them to the road block. Besides, it will at least work for a turn (shooting is after moving), and if they explode, you may cause some casualties. If they're wrecked, they are difficult/dangerous terrain to be avoided.

And besides, shoot at them with what? Long fangs? They don't have the shots to get through 4+ cover, and it seems they should be shooting at other targets (falcons, serpent) that are more lethal. Grey hunters have mass bolter fire, but again not enough damage results come through to reliably get past the 4+ cover (he did kill one vyper the turn after it blocked him though). And when your army can't really advance because the vypers are in the way....there isn't really a way to ignore them. Terrain did help too though.

Really, it's the 4+ cover save that makes them annoyingly resilient. Also it was 1500 points so he was limited in options more than he would be at higher points, but then Eldar are just constrained by not being able to bring enough firepower spread out enough without spamming serpents.

Buy a wraithlord

The marines bolters can't even hurt it (special/heavy weapons can though), not can they hurt it in CC except with a powerfist or similar str buffing toys.

Keep a Warlock on hand to stop it going to lala land


Of course he will become a gigantic fire magnet, but everything dedicated to bringing him down is ignoring your warwalkers, tanks, fire dragons (get some..they're fun! ) etc etc...

All the models I own are in the above list, so adding things is out of the question atm lol, thanks for all the info/ideas guys.

Fire dragons, they're an anti power armor, anti vehicle unit, use 3 units for your elites, their meltas over power space marine power armor and terminator armor with s 8, ap1 fusion weapons.

I'd try proxyign some of this stuff to get a feel for it if your opponent will let you.

Your current collection will suffer agaisnt Marines,as you simply don't have the units you need.

So realy the concensis is, avatar, another wlord, harlies and reapers for foot
Dragons, bikes, falcon, prisim and possibly banshees for mech, walkers for both oh and obviously more serpents

So realy the concensis is, avatar, another wlord, harlies and reapers for foot
Dragons, bikes, falcon, prisim and possibly banshees for mech, walkers for both oh and obviously more serpents

Well, it depends what you mean by foot or mech (as in they are foot/mech elements of your army?).

I would consider a wlord to be mech because of its toughness, and bikes to be foot because they are basically assault marines, just less capable (more shooty though).

Anyway, it does all depend on how you want your army to work. I cannot agree with people who say field 3 squads of dragons in all of your armies mainly because I don't like being so repetitive. In addition, I don't much like how short range dragons are, and I'm not very good at positioning the serpents to keep them safe. If you want a mech list, dragons fit in very well for sure. As for a foot list, they are less necessary/useful because they become a throwaway unit as you don't have enough to distract the enemy and keep them alive.

Proxying units is the best way to go about it if you don't have spare cash to spend, but I would advise that you try what you like and figure out how to field it well. As for the units you listed, my experience is:
Avatar just dies too quickly. He's probably well worth his cost, but it just becomes too hard to get him to a target.
Wraithlords are decent, but I like falcons and the nightspinner more (despite how relatively ineffective the falcon is).
Harlies are a fantastic unit, especially with doom. They are also a lot of fun to field (I just don't like the models, so need to come up with some way to convert them).
Dragons are annoying for their short range, but are very effective at their role. If you want a more survivable (though far more expensive in points & money) you could try 4-5 wraithguard and a warlock with singing spear in a wave serpent. I rather prefer this as I'm not a fan of how fragile dragons are, and wraithguard have the potential to ID a high wound MC.
I don't like bikes. I've heard of them being used effectively as combat units, but I just don't like the concept.
Falcon is a decent tank, and can be fitted out cheaply (I go with a single missile launcher and that's it) or expensively (second gun, undermounted shuriken cannon, holo-fields) or somewhere in between. Very flexible tank, but starting to lose out compared to some newer vehicles (specifically the Imperial Guard Vendetta).
I also don't like the prism. Others like it quite a bit, but I'm just not a fan. As for the combined shot, it's generally better to fire 2 shots than a single combined shot, so you need to learn when to do each.
Banshees just don't hit hard enough and die too easily. I love them, and have more banshee models than any other aspect than dire avengers, but they die too easily and fail to wound too often to be reliable.
And warwalkers are fantastic. I don't field them and don't much like them, but they put out a LOT of firepower.
Serpents are transports with a gun. They're like a razorback that flies. Good reliable transport.

Obviously some of my above points don't really influence you (if you're only fighting marines you don't care about the vendetta for example), and they're all units you don't own yet. I would advise proxying models if you can to get a feel for units before buying them, and then going with whichever units you enjoy using the most.

I meant full foot/mechanised armies, and yea proxies the plan for now, I just made a quick list with a few units I like the sound of.

Respectfully, saying a "serpent is like a razorback that flies" is like saying "A Lamborghini Is a like a Kia with leather seats"

labmouse42 wrote:Respectfully, saying a "serpent is like a razorback that flies" is like saying "A lamborghini Is a like a Kia with leather seats"

Lol I learnt this tonight, I nealy tabled the guy with the proxi list I through together, he did the same thing ie proxie units.