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Dave-c wrote:Meh, I still feel that the PF is better than a PW against orks, they are all T 4 for the most part, you will be stuck with boys for a couple fo rounds if not more and the higher str will equate to more wounds over the course of several combats than the PW. They also have mulitwound characters to single out and insta gib, the only ork hq with eternal warrior is Ghazzy.

Bear in mind the fact I said PWs are only better against Orks without walkers or nobz (which i'm using a catch-all for multi-wound Orks). I think a PW is better against hordes of boyz because mainly, each boy can add 3 attacks each to a combat, and strike before the PF. The PW will strike before the I3 boyz both on the charge and in a protracted combat (as opposed to at the same time as I4 marines) and with its extra attack, can stop 3 more attacks heading your way. The PF is better at killing boyz, but you have the suffer bucket-loads of attacks before it gets to hit, something that isn't an issue with MEQs.

Jackster wrote:PF would be better against IG as well, you are likely to come across vehicles and having something that can hurt them never hurts.

It depends on whether or not you survive to make it into combat. You're likely to face vehicles, but sitting in a rhino, you're just as likely to end up footslogging towards them for most of the game once your transport goes up in flames. Against IG, I probably wouldn't take a power weapon at all, unless I knew I was going to survive being shot to gak to reach combat. With IG having no walkers besides sentinels (who only have AV10 IIRC), striking the rear with S5 on the charge, and krak grenades against the walkers if they managed to survive, is likely to not need a PF.

whitedragon wrote:

DAaddict wrote:
Only when you are talking standard termies with PF is the PW going to be better because it should average north of 2 dead termies before he gets his boat-load of PF attacks. MC I might want the S5 attacks again to prevent his attacks but otherwise spending 25 seems the right thing to do.

Actually, probably not even then because the Termie's owning player will allocate all the power weapon wounds to one terminator (the sergeant most likely).

And this is exactly what i am talking about, the PW wounds being allocated to one man because of initiative means you lose the one extra attack anyways, plus maybe more depending on total wounds caused by the rest of the squad. This is why i will never take a PW iinstead of a PF, because it gets negated by allocation every time and can be allocated off because of the number of sheer attacks this unit gets resulting in lots of wounds to allocate against.

Aside from the obvious ways to use them; I always field at least one lash (either one DP with it or a Sorcerer in the Zerker squad). This helps immensely with getting them into h2h, even if their rhino only lasts a turn. Bring things for them to hit to them. Lazy Zerkers.

whitedragon wrote:

DAaddict wrote:
Only when you are talking standard termies with PF is the PW going to be better because it should average north of 2 dead termies before he gets his boat-load of PF attacks. MC I might want the S5 attacks again to prevent his attacks but otherwise spending 25 seems the right thing to do.

Actually, probably not even then because the Termie's owning player will allocate all the power weapon wounds to one terminator (the sergeant most likely).

Without saying "Taking a PW is poop!" I took a long but diplomatic way of saying the same thing.