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jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

Icon720 wrote: (rulebook, pg 70): "Passengers may not embark onto or disembark from a fast vehicle if it has moved (or is going to move) flat out in that Movement phase."

If you have not moved the distance you have not gone flat out

But if you intended to the passengers still can't disembark?

Who is surprised by the contradiction in the rules?

It may very well be that movement for rams works out different for flat out.

Is there a rule stating I need to declare movement before it happens?

I can't even find the intent rule, too many loud people trying to talk over each other as someone else turns up the TV

Icon720 wrote:Movement speed does not equal distance traveled. You are very wrong. Care to argue with yakface on this one?

Yes, as I do often. If you look at the actual vehicle rules you will find you are wrong on this.

If you ram you must move as fast as possible. If you stop after 6" because you got immobilised then you HAVE moved as far as possible. We now see your movement speed and LOOK! you have moved 6" == Combat Speed.

Next asinine argument please?

nosferatu1001 wrote:Next asinine argument please?

Just one in the form of a question.

So intent is only used for disembarking? Or is it just a flubbed up way of GW stating that if you have models disembark from a transport, it can't move more than 12" in the movement phase?

Pretty much. Same as the intent to turboboost a bike prevents a JetSeer from casting any psychic powers.

If you disembark a unit you cannot go flat out. Doesnt mean "intention to move 12"" means you have somehow moved 12" when you only move 6" - vehicle movement is based on actual distance moved (not displacement, however)

The fact being missed by everyone seems to be that a ram has a set distance youre moving, the vehicles maximum distance. As such, it works very similar to the skimmer flat out/immobilize/destroyed. When you ram another vehicle, there is the chance it will be removed as the result of a damage - explodes, the rammer must continue its move to its maximum move distance. Bottom of pg 69. To me that says you were moving flat out and got stopped, not you moved at combat or cruising speed and happened to ram something. In order to ram, you must intend to move at your maximum speed. As such, if your transport can move flat out, then it cannot have passengers disembark or embark that turn. If it cannot move flat out, id say it can do either.

Aipoch wrote:The fact being missed by everyone seems to be that a ram has a set distance youre moving, the vehicles maximum distance. As such, it works very similar to the skimmer flat out/immobilize/destroyed. When you ram another vehicle, there is the chance it will be removed as the result of a damage - explodes, the rammer must continue its move to its maximum move distance. Bottom of pg 69. To me that says you were moving flat out and got stopped, not you moved at combat or cruising speed and happened to ram something. In order to ram, you must intend to move at your maximum speed. As such, if your transport can move flat out, then it cannot have passengers disembark or embark that turn. If it cannot move flat out, id say it can do either.

Notice that Flat out has inches specific, so you're wrong on that case if you get stopped.

Alpoch - again, no. You must ATTEMPT to move as fast as possible, but AGAIN reread vehcile movement rules, and note that the ACTUAL distance travelled is all that counts.

The issue, as always, is the wording. It must move at the highest speed it is capable of. If im capable of moving flat out, i must move flat out. Does "capable" mean in the models profile, or in the exact situation of the game at hand? I would argue profile, as capability and ability are not the same as far as i know, and the rule doesnt say you move as far as you are able to in order to hit the vehicle. It says you move as far as your vehicle is capable of, and in the event you contact a vehicle, you ram it.

I would also believe that any result of "immobolized" on athe ramming skimmer would destroy it in the aftermath.

Moving at a ram means those engines are blairing from the get go. Its not crawling along to ram a vehicle because its only 6 inches away from ramming it and it might not get to go through it. That just doesnt make sense.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
After a quick reread of the brb, i can confirm the word "attempt" is not present anywhere, in any paragraph imder the section of "ramming". Can you clarify where you found this rule? Pg number, paragraph, sentence, etc.

Aipoch wrote:The issue, as always, is the wording.

Isn't that the basis of most of the arguments on YMDC?

Aipoch wrote:The issue, as always, is the wording. It must move at the highest speed it is capable of. If im capable of moving flat out, i must move flat out. Does "capable" mean in the models profile, or in the exact situation of the game at hand? I would argue profile, as capability and ability are not the same as far as i know, and the rule doesnt say you move as far as you are able to in order to hit the vehicle. It says you move as far as your vehicle is capable of, and in the event you contact a vehicle, you ram it.

I would also believe that any result of "immobolized" on athe ramming skimmer would destroy it in the aftermath.

Moving at a ram means those engines are blairing from the get go. Its not crawling along to ram a vehicle because its only 6 inches away from ramming it and it might not get to go through it. That just doesnt make sense.

Sorry flat out on a vehicle is defined as moving it more than 12"

imweasel wrote:

Aipoch wrote:The issue, as always, is the wording.

Isn't that the basis of most of the arguments on YMDC?

It was meant as a bit of humor


Automatically Appended Next Post:

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

Aipoch wrote:The issue, as always, is the wording. It must move at the highest speed it is capable of. If im capable of moving flat out, i must move flat out. Does "capable" mean in the models profile, or in the exact situation of the game at hand? I would argue profile, as capability and ability are not the same as far as i know, and the rule doesnt say you move as far as you are able to in order to hit the vehicle. It says you move as far as your vehicle is capable of, and in the event you contact a vehicle, you ram it.

I would also believe that any result of "immobolized" on athe ramming skimmer would destroy it in the aftermath.

Moving at a ram means those engines are blairing from the get go. Its not crawling along to ram a vehicle because its only 6 inches away from ramming it and it might not get to go through it. That just doesnt make sense.

Sorry flat out on a vehicle is defined as moving it more than 12"

What would happen to a skimmer that gets immobolized as a result of a failed ramming attempt then? Destroyed or not?

It must move at the highest speed it is capable of. This must be "in the situation, up to the maximum speed it is possible for it to move" - for example on a road your highest speed is 6" further. Nothing on your profile will tell you that.

If you end up stopping (no explosion, for example) after moving 6", then you check the movement rules on page 57 which is based on ACTUAL distance moved and note that this is Combat speed. Even if you COULD have moved 24", you only moved 6".

The real rules for movement only care about how far you have moved. No intent there.

Alpoch - it depends. Did it ACTUALLY move 12"+? If not then it is not destroyed, as it has not moved flat out.

A skimmer is coming out of difficult terrain. It declares a ram move. Youve established that its actual speed depends on how far it really moves. If it rolls a 1 on the immobilize test, its still destroyed i would assume. However, if it isnt destroyed, and stop after ramming the vehicle, and it didnt move over 12 inches, how would a 1no have destroyed it before?

I guess its fair to say that what a vehicle can and cant do is dependant on how far it has moved at the end of the movement phase regardless of what the other obscure rules in the book might suggest or dictate. Makes life simpler.

It is not destroyed, as it has NOT moved flat out. Reread the page I gave you, note that Flat out requires you to HAVE moved over 12". If you have NOT moved over 12" you are not destroyed.

If you are immobilised immediately upon trying to leave terrain, before you have moved any distance, you are in fact stationary and thus only immobilised. If you move 12" ram and get an immobilised result, you are STILL not destroyed, as you havent actually moved over 12"

ALL that matters is how far you have ACTUALLY moved, as per the ACTUAL rules on this.

So if it leaves the terrain attempting to go flat out onto open ground and becomes immobilized, it is not destroyed. If it moves flat out and lands in terrain and is immobilized, it is destroyed. Check yes/no?

Am I in the right understanding that for the Night/Doom Scythes are considered moving flat out going from 24"-36"?

Also...since both are able to fire all weapons at cruising speed...a Night Scythe could move 12", disembark their unit and in the shooting phase BOTH the transport and unit could shoot? If that is the case...this is beautiful. Simply beautiful.

Aipoch wrote:So if it leaves the terrain attempting to go flat out onto open ground and becomes immobilized, it is not destroyed. If it moves flat out and lands in terrain and is immobilized, it is destroyed. Check yes/no?

Correct

Gorandius wrote:Am I in the right understanding that for the Night/Doom Scythes are considered moving flat out going from 24"-36"?

Also...since both are able to fire all weapons at cruising speed...a Night Scythe could move 12", disembark their unit and in the shooting phase BOTH the transport and unit could shoot? If that is the case...this is beautiful. Simply beautiful.

Flat out is faster than 12" so 12.000001"-36" for them

and yes/yes 12" disembark and fire, mind you if firing rapid fire weapons they count as moving, etc

Ah, okay. Now that I reread the BGB and Necron codex, I don't know why I was confused on that.

Night Scythes are now my favored transport. Going by that, since they both have Aerial Assault, an escorting Doom Scythe will just add to the pain!

Thanks JD!

Aipoch wrote:So if it leaves the terrain attempting to go flat out onto open ground and becomes immobilized, it is not destroyed. If it moves flat out and lands in terrain and is immobilized, it is destroyed. Check yes/no?

Yes - immobilised because it hasnt actually gone flat out

Yes - destroyed because it HAS actually gone flat out.