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mikhaila wrote:

haendas wrote:While I don't really disagree with the fact that if you play at a FLGS you really should spend some money there, I don't think you are necessarily useless to them if you don't depending on the store. Even people that don't shop at a store can still help to maintain or more importantly build a player base. Like I said, I think if you play you should also support. If a store is struggling to even get a population then they shouldn't turn their noses up at anyone., I think getting a population started any way they can, even being friendly to people who haven't dropped coin there yet is a necessary first step. Without a population, there are no sales.

Disagree. Strongly.

Yes, stores should be friendly. No reason not to be. And I don't kick people out of the store for using the tables. But lets kill the idea that guys playing in your store are a benefit even if they don't buy anything. I've had many such customers in my stores. Most become customers because we have what they want. The ones that adamantly don't buy anything also seem quite vocal about where they do buy, and why other people should go there. This doesn't help the store at all.

They aren't a resource for the store, they take up resources. It might seem to be convenient to have them around for a bit, but in the short and long run, it's better for the store to develop it's own player and customer base.

The idea that non-customers coming in to play somehow helps make the store better is one of those myths very popular with people that want to play at the stores that support gamers and hobbies, but don't actually want to support them.

The problem starts when you want miniatures and ranges your local flag doesn't carry... in that case playing "alien" games there may be a good thing for a store even if it doesn't carry that game?
I think there's FLAGS and flags, some should be helped while others should be left alone.

NAVARRO wrote:

mikhaila wrote:

haendas wrote:While I don't really disagree with the fact that if you play at a FLGS you really should spend some money there, I don't think you are necessarily useless to them if you don't depending on the store. Even people that don't shop at a store can still help to maintain or more importantly build a player base. Like I said, I think if you play you should also support. If a store is struggling to even get a population then they shouldn't turn their noses up at anyone., I think getting a population started any way they can, even being friendly to people who haven't dropped coin there yet is a necessary first step. Without a population, there are no sales.

Disagree. Strongly.

Yes, stores should be friendly. No reason not to be. And I don't kick people out of the store for using the tables. But lets kill the idea that guys playing in your store are a benefit even if they don't buy anything. I've had many such customers in my stores. Most become customers because we have what they want. The ones that adamantly don't buy anything also seem quite vocal about where they do buy, and why other people should go there. This doesn't help the store at all.

They aren't a resource for the store, they take up resources. It might seem to be convenient to have them around for a bit, but in the short and long run, it's better for the store to develop it's own player and customer base.

The idea that non-customers coming in to play somehow helps make the store better is one of those myths very popular with people that want to play at the stores that support gamers and hobbies, but don't actually want to support them.

The problem starts when you want miniatures and ranges your local flag doesn't carry... in that case playing "alien" games there may be a good thing for a store even if it doesn't carry that game?
I think there's FLAGS and flags, some should be helped while others should be left alone.

Specific situation vs. general opinion.

The game being played isn't the problem. I've got guys coming in all the time to play games I don't carry, or are Out of Print. Difference is that they do buy things from the store, possibly paints, glue, and usually other game systems. I encourage my regular customes to use the tables for anything they want.

If I had guys showing up all the time to use the tables for a game I didn't carry, AND they didn't buy anything, then it's an unneccessary drain on the stores resources, resources supported by the paying customers, and therefore a problem.

mikhaila wrote:

NAVARRO wrote:

mikhaila wrote:

haendas wrote:While I don't really disagree with the fact that if you play at a FLGS you really should spend some money there, I don't think you are necessarily useless to them if you don't depending on the store. Even people that don't shop at a store can still help to maintain or more importantly build a player base. Like I said, I think if you play you should also support. If a store is struggling to even get a population then they shouldn't turn their noses up at anyone., I think getting a population started any way they can, even being friendly to people who haven't dropped coin there yet is a necessary first step. Without a population, there are no sales.

Disagree. Strongly.

Yes, stores should be friendly. No reason not to be. And I don't kick people out of the store for using the tables. But lets kill the idea that guys playing in your store are a benefit even if they don't buy anything. I've had many such customers in my stores. Most become customers because we have what they want. The ones that adamantly don't buy anything also seem quite vocal about where they do buy, and why other people should go there. This doesn't help the store at all.

They aren't a resource for the store, they take up resources. It might seem to be convenient to have them around for a bit, but in the short and long run, it's better for the store to develop it's own player and customer base.

The idea that non-customers coming in to play somehow helps make the store better is one of those myths very popular with people that want to play at the stores that support gamers and hobbies, but don't actually want to support them.

The problem starts when you want miniatures and ranges your local flag doesn't carry... in that case playing "alien" games there may be a good thing for a store even if it doesn't carry that game?
I think there's FLAGS and flags, some should be helped while others should be left alone.

Specific situation vs. general opinion.

The game being played isn't the problem. I've got guys coming in all the time to play games I don't carry, or are Out of Print. Difference is that they do buy things from the store, possibly paints, glue, and usually other game systems. I encourage my regular customes to use the tables for anything they want.

If I had guys showing up all the time to use the tables for a game I didn't carry, AND they didn't buy anything, then it's an unneccessary drain on the stores resources, resources supported by the paying customers, and therefore a problem.

Well its all about good judgement from both parts? I mean letting people to play things you don't carry is good because you can lure them to buy generic complements for those games and even new games that you carry, but that does not mean you have to take care of people who are only there constantly to play things you don't have and spend no money to help out.
Yet there's some stores that are only concentrated on the games they have and thats it.

Today more than ever there is a huge increment in small obscure games and its not that realistic to expect that a flags will carry everything but its also not realistic to expect people to be only interested in just warhammer or just warmachine.

Even if its just a specific situation it illustrates that if both flags and customers are not willing to be flexible then things will not work out.

Thats why I believe a store today has to diversify in order to lure different audiences and have different games, there's nothing more frustrating than to go with the wallet packed into a store just to find nothing your interested in... It happened to me so many times that today I don't go to my flags for a couple years now.

Thats why I say there's different types of flags some are modern like yours and others are stuck to the old formulas and discard basically the reality of the market today... So I cannot say Support the flags because while some deserve my money others do nothing for me.

That's why I encourage supporting stores you play at. If you're playing there, they are obviously doing something for you. The most important support anyone can give a store is monetarily. Without the money to pay the bills, they go away. A healthy store grows and brings in more product lines. An unprofitable one generally hemorages stock and buys nothing new.

There are certainly other forms of support: Organizing leagues, help running events, painting classes, building scenery, etc.
But that's all a moot point when the lights go out, and it's a pretty rare breed of gamer that will help with those things.

That's why I feel stores are perfectly entitled to charge for use of the tables.

I end up buying from the stores I frequent, as I believe in paying my way.

Either you spend money at the store or it closes and you don't get to use it.

miniwargaming.com
Best store ever.

I think Mikhaila is taking my comments a bit out of the context that I intended.

To put it in perspective. My local stores have no players occupying the tables. Ever. They are both very new and desperately trying to grow. I want to get games in there and support them but currently all I can do is support them. It costs me over 33% more to buy stock from them than if I buy from online discounters. If someone starts gaming with me there, I will spend all of my money there. I've already made purchases there even though I can't get a game in and can get stuff elsewhere much cheaper. If someone were to come in and play with me, I would spend more money there even if the other person didn't. Until I get games in, I'm probably done dropping coin in those stores.

I think at that stage of the game for my two new local stores, anyone using the tables is helpful for them.

My FLGS. It has a program where everything is pretty much 10% off retail. And it is good.

I root through the dumpsters behind the Salvation Army.

Sometimes there’s even food in there!

haendas wrote:I think Mikhaila is taking my comments a bit out of the context that I intended.

To put it in perspective. My local stores have no players occupying the tables. Ever. They are both very new and desperately trying to grow. I want to get games in there and support them but currently all I can do is support them. It costs me over 33% more to buy stock from them than if I buy from online discounters. If someone starts gaming with me there, I will spend all of my money there. I've already made purchases there even though I can't get a game in and can get stuff elsewhere much cheaper. If someone were to come in and play with me, I would spend more money there even if the other person didn't. Until I get games in, I'm probably done dropping coin in those stores.

I think at that stage of the game for my two new local stores, anyone using the tables is helpful for them.

Not saying they aren't helpful in this specific situation. My statements are more general. Possibly a bit of a knee-jerk reaction as well, after a dozen or so threads where the 'value' of non supporting gamers to a store has been discussed. Many guys feel they are a valuble part of the community, and the store should be thankful to them, just for showing up. I disagree with that.)

In your case, the store has empty tables, and isn't losing anything by letting someone play. The specific instance you're mentioning overrides my general comments.