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Ahtman wrote:

WARORK93 wrote:

Ahtman wrote:A child doing something they know a parent won't approve of and than venting on the internet? This is new and exciting.

1. according to state law I am no longer a child but then there's that whole "my house my rules" thing going on and that's off topic...

You realize that you can be fifty years old and you are still your parents child right? It has to do with the nature of your relationship to them, not your age. Your response is telling though.

WARORK93 wrote:2. I haven't done anything my parents wouldn't approve of...yet...

So how did it come up? It also sounds like you are going to do it anyway.

WARORK93 wrote:3. Not venting, I want people's opinions on the matter...

You want people to agree with you and to tell you you are right.

WARORK93 wrote:So if you have an actual opinion do please share it...

Move out or deal with it. Either way stop whining about it. Sometimes you can't get your way. This game bothers him so why try to start trouble where there doesn't need to be? You can't say there are no other games in the world to play. If your whole point is to try and push your dads buttons and annoy him, go for it, but don't come complaining about the fall out.

Athman are you being a troll for halloween?

I think the OP made it VERY clear in his opening post that he wasn't looking for advce on how to deal with his dad, or asking if he should be allowed to play it, etc.

Nor was he saying "poor me" or anything similar.

He very clearly stated that he wanted to see what the dakka community thought about these sorts of games and the effect they may or may not have on people, etc.

So why do you feel the need to come in like a troll/internet cool guy?

this is the kind of trollish and pointless posting habits that the mods need to address quickly and readily.

^^^

Flaming and off-topic posts should be cracked down on as well.

That sort of thing aside, it is a forum where people can give their opinions on the topics that they find. I don't see why Ahtman, if he isn't breaking a rule, shouldn't be able to chime in with his thoughts.

Monster Rain wrote:^^^

Flaming and off-topic posts should be cracked down on as well.

That sort of thing aside, it is a forum where people can give their opinions on the topics that they find. I don't see why Ahtman, if he isn't breaking a rule, shouldn't be able to chime in with his thoughts.

And your attitude (acceptance of trolling) is why it is so prevelant on this forum...

Internet tough guy fight! I got the popcorn, who's bringing the soda?

Chowderhead wrote:Internet tough guy fight! I got the popcorn, who's bringing the soda?

Nothign of the kind.

I just don't understand why people need to come into a thread with the attitude Athman displayed? The Op very clearly stated he wasn't looking for any of the things Athman alluded to, he simply set the scene for why he was posting.

the point of the thread was to get people's opinions on the effect of games like this on people/society. It was clearly stated that it had nothing to do with the Op wanting validation to play said games, or to get support/pity about his dad's stance.

Too bad Athman didn't read that part of the original post. Or worse yet, he did but felt the need to post what he did anyways...

CT GAMER wrote:And your attitude (acceptance of trolling) is why it is so prevelant on this forum...

I don't know, man. It just didn't seem that bad to me. I also don't tend to comment when I think someone is trolling any more, I just click the yellow triangle of friendship generally followed immediately by the ignore button. It really makes the forum experience much less saddening.

Anyway, I'll leave this alone now.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

CT GAMER wrote:

Chowderhead wrote:Internet tough guy fight! I got the popcorn, who's bringing the soda?

Nothign of the kind.

+1

I disagreed with something he posted, and said so. This doesn't necessarily mean that we hate each other. Well, I don't hate CT GAMER anyway.

Monster Rain wrote: I also don't tend to comment when I think someone is trolling any more, I just click the yellow triangle of friendship generally followed immediately by the ignore button.

Good advice.

I'll now withdraw from this thread for the sake of the children...

My "wrong" actions in a virtual world do not interfere with my ability to make "right" decisions in the real world.

I don't see the problem here.

CT GAMER wrote:

Chowderhead wrote:Internet tough guy fight! I got the popcorn, who's bringing the soda?

Nothign of the kind.

I just don't understand why people need to come into a thread with the attitude Athman displayed? The Op very clearly stated he wasn't looking for any of the things Athman alluded to, he simply set the scene for why he was posting.

the point of the thread was to get people's opinions on the effect of games like this on people/society. It was clearly stated that it had nothing to do with the Op wanting validation to play said games, or to get support/pity about his dad's stance.

Too bad Athman didn't read that part of the original post. Or worse yet, he did but felt the need to post what he did anyways...

CT, I was referring to you and Ahtman, not you and MR. You ninja'd me, and that made it seem like what you thought it was.

Sorry for any mishaps.

Ahtman wrote:

WARORK93 wrote:

Ahtman wrote:A child doing something they know a parent won't approve of and than venting on the internet? This is new and exciting.

1. according to state law I am no longer a child but then there's that whole "my house my rules" thing going on and that's off topic...

You realize that you can be fifty years old and you are still your parents child right? It has to do with the nature of your relationship to them, not your age. Your response is telling though.

WARORK93 wrote:2. I haven't done anything my parents wouldn't approve of...yet...

So how did it come up? It also sounds like you are going to do it anyway.

WARORK93 wrote:3. Not venting, I want people's opinions on the matter...

You want people to agree with you and to tell you you are right.

WARORK93 wrote:So if you have an actual opinion do please share it...

Move out or deal with it. Either way stop whining about it. Sometimes you can't get your way. This game bothers him so why try to start trouble where there doesn't need to be? You can't say there are no other games in the world to play. If your whole point is to try and push your dads buttons and annoy him, go for it, but don't come complaining about the fall out.

1. I didn't say anything about not being my parents child, I am fully aware of exactly who's loins I sprang from and give them the respect they deserve as my parents, my statement was simply that in society's eyes I am no longer considered a minor and am now and adult.

2. How did doing something my parents wouldn't approve of come up?

Ahtman wrote:A child doing something they know a parent won't approve of and than venting on the internet? This is new and exciting.

That's how it came up...nowhere did I say that I was planning on disobeying my parents and that is not what this thread is about so please stop insisting that it is...

3. That's entirely presumptuous of you and is nowhere eluded in the OP that I want people to tell me that I am right, I'd be happy for someone to give me an intellectual argument for my father's side but apparently I'm not going to get that from you...

4. Congratulations, you win the award for jumping to conclusions which you seem to have perfected...Your opinion is entirely misguided as my relationship with my father IS NOT what this thread is about...its about a moral dilemma that I would hope the good people of Dakka would have the intellect to answer in a non shallow, non cynical way...If you cannot figure out how to write a post in such a way that it actually addresses the topic then please leave...

I'd like to thank the half of you that actually answered my question for your time and opinions as well...

WARORK93 wrote:...intellect to answer in a non shallow, non cynical way...

This doesn't help your case for requesting honest, rather than confirming, opinions.

dogma wrote:

WARORK93 wrote:...intellect to answer in a non shallow, non cynical way...

This doesn't help your case for requesting honest, rather than confirming, opinions.

Is it so wrong to ask people to answer the question posed instead of judge me for the small amount of context in the situation I have given them?

WARORK93 wrote:
Is it so wrong to ask people to answer the question posed instead of judge me for the small amount of context in the situation I have given them?

Considering the question, there is little distinction.

dogma wrote:

WARORK93 wrote:
Is it so wrong to ask people to answer the question posed instead of judge me for the small amount of context in the situation I have given them?

Considering the question, there is little distinction.

Then it must have been a mistake to include the part about the conversation this subject came up in...Forgive me for thinking that the people on dakka could get past their presumptuous conclusions and address the actual question posed...

If people could get the notion that I'm looking for their approval out of their head for three seconds then maybe we could have a nice discussion...

WARORK93 wrote:
Then it must have been a mistake to include the part about the conversation this subject came up in...Forgive me for thinking that the people on dakka could get past their presumptuous conclusions and address the actual question posed...

If people could get the notion that I'm looking for their approval out of their head for three seconds then maybe we could have a nice discussion...

This is a question of ethics, there won't be a discussion.

My answer would be "Do what you want to do."

But then, I'm an amoral prick, so you probably shouldn't listen to me.

halonachos wrote:Is it okay for a random cop to pop out of nowhere while you're on your last legs and pop you with a shotgun? In real life no, in videogames yes.

As long as you can separate reality from virtual reality then you should be fine. Kill the videogame cops, respect real life ones and everything should be hunky-doree.

Well, the shotgun thing isn't okay in real life, but that doesn't stop some cops from doing it....

But seriously, whatever the hell you do in a fictional universe has no consequence on reality whatsoever, so therefor I don't care.

It's all make believe silliness. Depending on how the game executes it, it might be in bad taste or not (I haven't played the game the OP is talking about so I can't comment on that one specifically). And while I've played GTA and had a blast doing it, I've certainly seen people playing it in a way that I find somewhat uncomfortable, as they were really, really getting into the fantasy of killing policemen and hookers. But then, I've bumped into the same sorts of people in roleplaying game, so it isn't so much a videogame thing as a 'there's sick bastards out there' thing.

Without knowing the exact details of the game in question, or how and why the OP enjoys the game, I don't think we can really comment on whether or not it's a healthy use of his spare time.

But I do know it isn't disrespectful to kill policemen in games. The policeman is just a guy doing his job, but that's no different to all those Russian soldiers in countless games and movies that the hero blows away.



More importantly though, I have always wanted to play a really kickass bank heist game, and am interested if the one the OP is talking about is any good.

KingCracker wrote:The way I look at it, is you cant look at moderngames on the surface, as far as "well you kill cops, therefore its bad!" You have to look at it like "there is a set challenge and how high is the bar set to beat the challenge" Thats what people like you and I are really playing these games for, not to actually kill people for no reason at all (just dont tell him about poppin hookers in GTA, thats just fun) but the challenge in figuring out how to beat the game.

If that were true, games would consist of entirely abstract coloured blobs that looked like nothing and represented nothing, but where killing/dodging them was purely refined, intensely skilful affair. In other words, we'd still be playing asteroids.

I think people like the make believe that is helped by the setting, story and graphics of the game. The OP is playing a bank heist game because, at least in part, he thinks it'd be fun to pretend to be a bank robber. I do know at least some of the fun in the GTA games is from driving recklessly and machine gunning anyone who stands in your way. It's certainly harmless, but let's not kid ourselves about where the fun is.

I only run over people in GTA because the cars are so f#$%ing hard to steer.

WARORK93 wrote:So today I got into an argument with my father over a videogame...

This particular game is called "Payday: The heist" a game where you take the role of a professional thief and rob a series of banks while battling police forces...now this is where the argument came in...

My dad wouldn't let me play it in our house on the grounds that it "promotes acts of lawlessness in our society" his words as exact as I could get them. Furthermore he considers it an insult to himself, being a law enforcement officer, that such games and other media (such as movies) exist...

My argument consisted mainly of saying that the game wasn't real and playing it did not make one a cop killing bank robber...

Now, the situation has been resolved so I'm not asking for advice, but what does Dakka think? Is it okay to kill policemen in videogames? Is it okay to break the law while participating in fiction as long as the person in question is aware of the difference between fiction and reality?

Or does such acts lessen or represent the small amount of respect one has for human life? I will let dakka judge...

If you're capable of working a video game, you're capable of working in a coal mine. Get to work you bum. That coal aint gonna dig itself!

Ma55ter_fett wrote:I only run over people in GTA because the cars are so f#$%ing hard to steer.

Amen. And those innocent by standers who died in that gun fight? It's not my fault my guy can't shoot straight and cars explode if I so much as nick them

halonachos wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:It's a schooner.

Not very helpful.

The Video game industry has been assaulted so many times for this exact thing its crazy. Any logical sound of mind individual knows the difference between fact and fiction in regards to entertainment. Societal pressures and the daily stresses we all endure dictate a form of venting or release so we can get back to the grind so to speak.

I feel video games and movies are just that. Ever seen the movie "Falling Down"? It's all the things you wish you could do without any repercussions because you get frustrated at the flat disgusting pile of muck they call a burger, you get tired of traffic, and getting tickets from cops, etc.

I understand his view as well, and if I were a policeman I might feel differently, hard to say, but I don't think so.

LordofHats wrote:

Ma55ter_fett wrote:I only run over people in GTA because the cars are so f#$%ing hard to steer.

Amen. And those innocent by standers who died in that gun fight? It's not my fault my guy can't shoot straight and cars explode if I so much as nick them

Agreed...
Driving a car is like sailing a damn ship on the game...
A ship with a limp.

Aside from the OP and his questions, I have to say that I'm always concerned by an individual who takes personal offence from products such as video games that are based on quite broad social and cultural trends.

I'd hope people got into law enforcement because they wanted to make a difference and actually tackle crime happening in the real world and base their reaction to people on their actual interaction with them and not on what happens in a fictional narrative they happen to be reading, watching or playing.

Would this same person be aggrieved if they found their child watching a film in which the protagonist shot a cop or reading a book that told the story of a real life case in which a cop was shot?

Why does it seem so odd to some people to start having a problem with others when they do something in the real world rather than when a character they play in a game does something that isn't real?

I respect this guy's right to ban a video game under his roof for his own reasons, but I also assert my own right to disagree with him.

What on earth is sailing a ship with a limp like?

And no, don't just say cars in GTA.

Cars in Saints Row 2 maybe?

MrDwhitey wrote:What on earth is sailing a ship with a limp like?

And no, don't just say cars in GTA.

Cars in Saints Row 2 maybe?

Imagine driving a turbo-boosted blimp.
You can see where you want to go but the maneuverability of your blimp doesn't match the speed of which it goes.

purplefood wrote:

MrDwhitey wrote:What on earth is sailing a ship with a limp like?

And no, don't just say cars in GTA.

Cars in Saints Row 2 maybe?

Imagine driving a turbo-boosted blimp.
You can see where you want to go but the maneuverability of your blimp doesn't match the speed of which it goes.

That doesn't seem so ba- OH DEAR LORD THIS IS TERRIBLE!

Avatar 720 wrote:

purplefood wrote:

MrDwhitey wrote:What on earth is sailing a ship with a limp like?

And no, don't just say cars in GTA.

Cars in Saints Row 2 maybe?

Imagine driving a turbo-boosted blimp.
You can see where you want to go but the maneuverability of your blimp doesn't match the speed of which it goes.

That doesn't seem so ba- OH DEAR LORD THIS IS TERRIBLE!

That is pretty much how my driving experience is with cars on GTA...

You've just gotta work the handbrake.

...that wasn't the handbrake...