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Tri wrote:In lower points games the warriors are amazing. I've been using Illuminor Szeras to boost a 20 man unit. T5, BS5 or Str5 are amazing but he also brings defensive grenades to the unit (as well as a lance). I then back this unit up with a pair of 5 man warriors in barges. I've only lost them once and that was against an IG player that got lucky killing my transport.

This.

Illuminor Szeras + Lord w/Res Orb + Ghost Ark (or 2) + 20 Warriors + Phaeron in bigger games is just nails.

Illuminor/Lord/Phaeron (which ever way you choose to go about the Phaeron) add some very solid CC punch to the unit, and if you get lucky 20 T5 4+ RP 4+ wounds is a nightmare for anyone to take down, especially with a Ghost Ark or two replenishing numbers.

Tri wrote:In lower points games the warriors are amazing. I've been using Illuminor Szeras to boost a 20 man unit. T5, BS5 or Str5 are amazing but he also brings defensive grenades to the unit (as well as a lance). I then back this unit up with a pair of 5 man warriors in barges. I've only lost them once and that was against an IG player that got lucky killing my transport.

Good sir, that actually sounds like a really awesome idea...guess I don't have to forget about my footslogger army now I wonder how to fit those in 1000 pts...maybe keep them at 20, phaeron, Szeras, Harbinger of Destruction with Solar Pulse, Ghost Ark with 9 warriors + 1 HoD with Flame Gaze (spare points, eh) and 9 Scarabs? Leaves me with only two scoring units though...hmmm...

Thanks a lot for that idea, I'm really happy now

Puscifer wrote:I've said this many times on Dakka...

Try Warrior Spam.

15-20 Warriors with a Cryptek with Res. Orb.

Not many things can shift that mass of steel.

Can Crypteks take Res Orbs?

imark789 wrote:

Puscifer wrote:I've said this many times on Dakka...

Try Warrior Spam.

15-20 Warriors with a Cryptek with Res. Orb.

Not many things can shift that mass of steel.

Can Crypteks take Res Orbs?

No, Only Lords/Overlords/D Lords can.

Good reviews and commentary.

I'm one of those folks with a Necron army from before and I was thinking along the same lines of immortals are better too!

A ghost arc is a 100+ transport, sheesh, I been playing Eldar to long to want to base an army around those, especially after seeing what Dark Eldar can do.

I think I'm leaning toward the immortals more.

Augustus wrote:Good reviews and commentary.

I'm one of those folks with a Necron army from before and I was thinking along the same lines of immortals are better too!

A ghost arc is a 100+ transport, sheesh, I been playing Eldar to long to want to base an army around those, especially after seeing what Dark Eldar can do.

I think I'm leaning toward the immortals more.

I think the Night scythe is a pretty nice Transport. It's quick, and it's mounted weapon is pretty fantastic. Warriors can take those too.

I think they both have their uses. I like the New Immortal models a ton though.

A pain in the butt to kill speed bump

Warriors vs Immortals seems to definitely be a case of investment.

If you want just a few, go with Immortals. A few units of Immortals are vastly superior to the same cost in Warriors.

Warriors shine with their support options, but these are overcosted for small numbers; a big unit of Warriors with an orblord gets more use from the Orb than a unit of Immortals, and the Ghost Ark keeps them in even longer. But you need a lot of warriors for that, due to how Arks work.

That is, a unit of 10 warriors + Ark is pretty overcosted. There's not a lot of incentive to disembark the warriors for most of the game (they're shooters, not assault units, and do that fine from the Ark), so they're not gonna be taking casualties until the Ark dies. So the Ark can't use its repair ability, which is key to its high point cost.

The Ark is cool, but really has some confliction in its abilities, since having Warriors ride it, and repairing warriors, don't play well together unless you've got at least 2 squads of Warriors, one to ride and one to take casualties and be repaired. For the same cost as 10 warriors and an Ark, you can get 14 Immortals who are probably better, since the warriors riding an ark won't take casualties until the Ark is down, negating any use of its repair ability.

Now, if you're gonna run a lot of troops, 40 some Warriors broken into 2 groups of 10 with Arks and a footslogging group of 20 with a Res Orb lord would be amazingly hardy, since nothing keeps both Arks from repairing the footsloggers each turn. That would certainly end up being much more resilient than equivilant Immortals. Plus you can use 9 instead of 10 warriors on the Arks and drop a Cryptic with a ranged weapon power in each; an Eldritch Lance in particular basically gives your Arks a lascannon that will survive the Ark, and then 9 warrior deaths before it goes down.

But if you're only looking to put 300-400 points in Troops, Immortals are better. Warriors definitely take a larger investment in the unit size and support options.

Sigvatr wrote:GW knew that every Necron player already had a lot of Necron warriors and would not buy more of them thus they made Immortals cheap enough to be better than them because they knew that nobody had a real collection of Immortals.

Smart :3

But immortals are so much more expensive in monetary terms...

I find that warriors and immortals work well together. That little extra bit of armor on Immortals really helps them out and the large squad size of warriors really helps when you get in rapid fire, especially if you take a triarch stalker and use its targeting relay ability to twinlink your shots. With that I managed to decimate a 5 man grey knight terminator squad.

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imark789 wrote:But immortals are so much more expensive in monetary terms...

Yes, but you do technically need fewer of them to be effective. With warriors you need a large squad + Ghost Arks in order to keep them effective.

CthuluIsSpy wrote:Yes, but you do technically need fewer of them to be effective. With warriors you need a large squad + Ghost Arks in order to keep them effective.

You don't necessarily need the ghost arks for warriors to be effective. And besides, you're going to need more than 5 immortals for an effective squad, otherwise it will most likely get wiped out in a round of shooting...meaning you have to drop $66 bucks for them :/ way too expensive.

imark789 wrote:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:Yes, but you do technically need fewer of them to be effective. With warriors you need a large squad + Ghost Arks in order to keep them effective.

You don't necessarily need the ghost arks for warriors to be effective. And besides, you're going to need more than 5 immortals for an effective squad, otherwise it will most likely get wiped out in a round of shooting...meaning you have to drop $66 bucks for them :/ way too expensive.

Aussies pay $55AUD for one box of Immortals....

I prefer the warriors myself, if I take Immortals, its going to be at a larger apoc sized game and only "just for fun". I don't really see the point honestly. Don't get me wrong, i see the utility, just not why I would want to take them over a larger squad of warriors.

severedblue wrote:Aussies pay $55AUD for one box of Immortals....

Yeah, that's obscene. I started playing warhammer way back when the stuff was manageable still. Luckily there's a store about a mile from my house that sells all their GW products 25% off every day, so the prices are almost comparable to what they used to be. If I had to pay that much for models, I probably wouldn't play at all.

whigwam wrote:Side-by-side, Immortals are better. They would be a no-brainer for me...if not for the Ghost Ark.

Footslogging Necron troops are obviously vulnerable to assault, whether they're Immortals or Warriors. But Warriors can hide in the Ark, greatly lessening that vulnerability, while retaining their ability to move/shoot effectively.

Additionally, with WBB now replaced by RP, your troops are generally less resilient than before. More will die, less will stand back up. And how can you mitigate that loss? Well, Ghost Arks can repair D3 Warriors a turn. If you have multiple Ghost Arks churning out Warriors throughout the game, you will be seeing entire units' worth of models coming back to life. Immortals have nothing that will bolster their survivability like that.

The repair ability is worth a lot, and that is built into the Ghost Ark's cost. The point cost of a Ghost Ark might seem objectionably high at first glance, but subtract the cost of the Warriors it'll be producing and it's suddenly looking reasonable. Then consider that you're removing obvious targets from dedicated assault troops...you're making your enemy's limited AT deal with even more AV13...you're making your scoring units more resilient and more mobile... Really, I would love to take all Immortals, but the more I think about it, the more Warriors/Arks make the best sense.

But they aren't less resilient. WBB was negated by weapons that RP doesn't care about, and now the Necrons don't phase out when a portion of the army goes down.

I agree with your sentiments about the Ghost Ark, however. But I don't think spam/redundant Warriors + Ark are the way to go. Necrons have a large variety of units that serve a different function. Attaching a Cryptek/Lord to Immortals to deal with infantry, while Deathmarks target heavies and MC's; hitting multiple targets with Barges (of both varieties) and Monoliths for mobility; Arks for resiliency, Doomsday and Spyders/Scarabs for vehicles...

There's so much to do with this list that I think anyone attempting MSU style play, or spammy lists with Necrons will be supremely disappointed with their results.