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Made in nz
Dakka Veteran




Mindshackle the Pallies, and they can ID themselves
   
Made in gb
Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan



UK

Sasori wrote:
jy2 wrote:Here's something that will kill scarabs. 10-man paladin unit with banner. That's one unit the scarabs are going to want to avoid.



What WANTS to engage a 10 man Paladin unit... lol.
My boom stick (Leman Russ Demolisher.) Str10 based hilarity.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Friend of mine just sent me this:

"The Tyranid Codex, where I learned the truth about despair, as will you. There's a reason why this codex is the worst hell on earth... Hope. ."
Too be fair.. it's all worked out quite well!

Heh.  
   
Made in us
Awesome Autarch






San Diego, California

@Person6

In our test games, mindshackle scarabs have been incredible. I don't think you need the big squad of them, it would be fun in casual play as you said, but not necessary in competitive play.

One or two models with mindshackle is all you need in a squad so long as you place them wisely, we have found.

   
Made in nz
Numberless Necron Warrior



New Zealand

Reecius wrote:One or two models with mindshackle is all you need in a squad so long as you place them wisely, we have found.


I played a game against a Tyranid player, and found Mind shackle scarabs are amazing, especially against monstrous creatures, it really helped that his leadership rolls sucked, but even still wasting their attacks each assault phase makes them a huge heap of ineffective points. I only had a destroyer lord with them in my list and he was enough to cause havoc

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/11/19 01:58:21


Retired Space Marine and Necron 40K player. Looking to start Warmahordes in the future.
 
   
Made in us
Rough Rider with Boomstick




USA

Here are some good match ups against Imotek+Scarabs/Spider spam. Note that if Necron player dedicates all heavy slots to Spyders and 2-3 Fast slots to scarabs, he is not going to have many options/pts to play with to get sufficient high strength shooty units(stalkers are expensive).

DE Venom spam: fly up 12", shoot poison weapons at spyders and lances at Necron transports on turn 1-2. With rerolls for vision it wont matter much night fight or not. 9 Spyders, even with 3 wounds each wont last long.

Mech IG: spam chimera w heavy flamers and multi-lasers(ID scarabs). Flashlight Necron vehicles during night fight, vendettas+manticores in 2 turns necrons will have no vehicles and only scarabs/spyders left. Hide the hellhound behind the parking lot for some scarab BBQ.

Mech BA: Baal flamepreds, fast vehicles to close the distance on the necrons.

Others: GK heavy incinerators, SM LR Redeemers will all work wonders on scarabs.

   
Made in us
Fell Caller - Child of Bragg







Some other nasty bits I've picked up using Catacomb Command Barges.

1) Get to your opponent's backplane.
2) Sweep over something you need to hit at cruising or combat speed.
3) Get out and assault it if it's not finished.

This has been surprisingly effective for me, especially for finishing off walkers. Sweep over, taking out their DCCW and assaulting for a simple finish. It's also been great for eating up a unit of long fangs, or even a HWS: I'm probably only going to score a wound or two, so the combat is not likely to finish until after my opponent's next shooting phase.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sectiplave wrote:
Reecius wrote:One or two models with mindshackle is all you need in a squad so long as you place them wisely, we have found.


I played a game against a Tyranid player, and found Mind shackle scarabs are amazing, especially against monstrous creatures, it really helped that his leadership rolls sucked, but even still wasting their attacks each assault phase makes them a huge heap of ineffective points. I only had a destroyer lord with them in my list and he was enough to cause havoc


Well, the fact that you have to test LD on 3d6 means that even Ld 10 is going to fail nearly half of the time.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/11/19 05:54:38


Over 350 points of painted Trolls and Cyriss 
   
Made in us
Devious Space Marine dedicated to Tzeentch




From my own personal experience,

Ci'Tan making Dangerous terrain checks does wonders vs horde armies. They either take cover and face dangerous terrain or take on w/e you can throw at them.

Played vs 2 nidplayers with an eldar player on my team (2k each player). Dawn of war + solar flare gave us a warrior squad downed in 1 round (Eldar shooting since i have no real ranged guns). Dangerous terrain halved all their hordes easily within a few turns. By the time their 6 Carnafexes got into combat (Turn 5-6?) i dealt a ton of wounds. Killing one, and brining another down to 1 wound left and doing 1-2 to the others. I then my 10 warriors, w/ Lord + Cryptek, got assaulted and won with lords warsythe and Mindscarabs. I killed the Swarm Lords tyrant guard with dangerous terrain finishing the Swarm Lord off with a Ci'tan (Was close). Killed a Tyrmagon Prime with wraiths beamers .. and in total lost a unit of destroyers and i think 1-2 warrior models.

Overall: We arent so bad vs nids. Wraiths with beamers can take out Cranifexs and Monsterous Creatures. And if anything gets your warriors mindshackled + War scythe will tip the balance in your favor.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/11/19 06:20:44


 
   
Made in us
Awesome Autarch






San Diego, California

@Sons of Vulkan
You would be surprised how good Nightfight is, even with Night Vision/acute senses. In our games, the Conrs have beaten the Dark Eldar soundly.

You would think IG would shoot them off the table, but in our test games that hasn't happened. Farming the Scarabs up resulted in an unstoppable horde of the little buggers.

We have taken the Crons to a tournament and the crons went right through Purifier spam GKs, Plague Marines and DE, although they did get smashed by a second PM list. They got flattened in close combat by massed str 6, which is what you need to do.

But like you said, you need to double them out, or else you are screwed. They aren't unbeatable at all, but a lot of armies lack the tools to take them on.

@Ostrakon
Everyone is saying the command barge is where it's at, we'll have to try it out! It looks pretty awesome.

   
Made in us
Devious Space Marine dedicated to Tzeentch




I second Reecius, my first game was vs Dark Eldar in annihilation.

Storm lord was amazing a killed like 5 vehicles with lightning. By thurn 3 when it ended i had more kill points then my enemy could get by wiping me out. His witches get into CC with my crappy warriors + Lord + Cryptek + Overlord/Imotek. Note i forgot i had mind shackled, but i managed to hold out for 5 rounds in assault. It came down to turn 7 and 2 rolls to see if the game would continue and if it ended i would have won :( saddly it didnt end and i finally died (Big one to the Rez Orb in each squad here).

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/11/19 06:26:13


 
   
Made in us
Awesome Autarch






San Diego, California

We just ran our Stormlord Scarab Farm list against a Hardcore IG tournament list, and wow. The game was over turn 3.

Granted the Necron dice were hot, but holy crap. We'll play-test it some more, but that was an incredibly one sided game.

   
Made in au
Numberless Necron Warrior



New Zealand

This is interesting Reecius, I'm pleasantly surprised to see many people changing their minds about this codex, after thinking how poor it looked on paper, it appears things work out better than they first appear.

I've been impressed with differently equipped wraiths running with a mindshackle destroyer lord. Finesse is required in the movement phase, but they have the tools to get results. They are not to be over estimated and thrown at massed double strength power weapons, or where you do not have a decent chance to shackle the hidden high strength power weapon.

Retired Space Marine and Necron 40K player. Looking to start Warmahordes in the future.
 
   
Made in us
Awesome Autarch






San Diego, California

I totally agree. We were with the majority thinking "meh" on the first read through the book, but now all of us are loving it. A great book and goes a long way to redeeming Mat Ward for the Grey Knights.

http://www.frontlinegaming.org/2011/11/20/video-battle-report-necron-phalanx-vs-land-raider-blood-angels/

http://www.frontlinegaming.org/2011/11/18/813/

Those are two battle reports that go into depth about tactics with the new Crons if anyone is interested.

One thing: we were playing the tremor stave wrong, it doesn't work in the assault phase. That changed things a bit, but even with the change, it's still an amazing piece of kit.

   
Made in au
Numberless Necron Warrior



New Zealand

Cool to see the traditional phalanx is able to hold itself together, and good use of arcs while falling back in that BA game.

I still need to battle test some of my lists out, but it's looking like there will be quite a range of good Necron lists that can do well, so long as they have cohesion.

I agree that mindshackle scarabs can indeed turn the tide of combat very quickly, and have also played them that in a single model unit they will attack themself.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/11/20 23:21:04


Retired Space Marine and Necron 40K player. Looking to start Warmahordes in the future.
 
   
Made in us
Devious Space Marine dedicated to Tzeentch




I watched both videos and Idk about some of the stuff he does.

"Guiding" a falling back unit for instance. Imo they fall back at the start of the movement phase ... and they have to be the frist ones to move. This dosnt mean its impossible to do, but requires forethought.

Other then that he once again reinforces certain must have powers. (Mind Shackled Scarabs)

Also i am planning a 2 Ark list as well with warriors spam. I am glad that arks go along way to make us some what decent in melee.
   
Made in us
Awesome Autarch






San Diego, California

@Sectiplave
Yeah, it was fun to play that list, a lot of fun actually. It is very tense trying to get in range to shoot, but stay out of assault range. Good fun!

@Tyrs13
That is a common misconception, that the unit falls back at the beginning of the phase, as that is the way it was in 4th.

Now, the unit falls back when you activate it, and you can activate at any point in the movement phase. So, it is totally legal, and allows for a lot of tactical play in keeping your boys on the field to shoot, rally, etc.

   
Made in au
Numberless Necron Warrior



New Zealand

EDIT; I need to read the 40K rule book, but I think fallback moves must be made at the start of the movement phase before any other movement takes place?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/11/21 02:43:49


Retired Space Marine and Necron 40K player. Looking to start Warmahordes in the future.
 
   
Made in us
Awesome Autarch






San Diego, California

That is the way it was.

Now, the fallback move occurs when you nominate that unit to move.

pg.45
"Units make fall back moves immediately upon failing a morale test. (That is the part that throws people off) In each subsequent movement phase, they will make further fall back moves instead of moving normally, until the unit regroups, is destroyed or leaves the table."

The key there is that the unit falls back instead of moving normally. Nowhere does it say they fall back at the beginning of the movement phase.

People often play it that way, but that is not the way the rule works. It did last edition.

It is game changing. It allows you to do so much to keep units in play before they run off the board, or to rally them.

   
Made in us
Smokin' Skorcha Driver




East Coast

Im running a 30 scarab/9 spyder list against orks tomorrow at 2000pts. I think 30 might be too much but youll never know till you try. Ill let yall know how it runs

'When in deadly danger,
When beset by doubt,
Run in little circles,
Wave your arms and shout.'
-Parody of the Litany of Command,
popular among commissar cadets 
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User





Bit long in my opinion

Oh yeah, by the way, is it wise to by a royal court of five cryptect for my necrons overlord, one of each type? I mean, worth the money?

Necrons rule!
Orcs also rule!  
   
Made in us
Rough Rider with Boomstick




USA

Vect w venom/lance spam DE will be a good game againct Imotehk necrons. Both HQ seizes on a 4+!
   
Made in us
Awesome Autarch






San Diego, California

@Chosen Pratorian
Let us know how that goes!

@@Phhaeron Latoch
5 Crypteks? We have been kit bashing them out of extra bits and warriors and they look great. The Finecast GW ones all look the same (although cool), and are expensive. I personally would buy maybe one GW cyrptek, and convert the rest.

@SonsofVulkan
That would be a funny game!

   
Made in us
Smokin' Skorcha Driver




East Coast

Lol so three squads is waaaaay too many. I had some luck with 2 squads of 10 though. I farmed out 9 bases to get a turn one assault on ork wagon spam then farmed out 9 bases turns 2 and 3 on the second squad i was keeping back for a counter assault. I tried a game against wolves that didnt go so well. I couldnt get to his long fangs and being vulnerable to blast didnt help. His cav hitting pretty much wiped them. Grey hunters on the assault was pretty rough as well. I have a list of 9 heavy destroyers and 3 monoliths with 3 arks and some reserves tricks that i may get to try this weekend. If i get to play Ill let you know how that goes.

'When in deadly danger,
When beset by doubt,
Run in little circles,
Wave your arms and shout.'
-Parody of the Litany of Command,
popular among commissar cadets 
   
Made in us
Awesome Autarch






San Diego, California

Yeah, let us know how it goes, I would be interested in seeing that data.

   
Made in cn
Blackclad Wayfarer





From England. Living in Shanghai

I'm not sure if it's been mentioned before but this is something I was thinking about yesterday. Let me know if this has already come up...Scarabs with night-fight are going to a real pain in the ass for things like TH/SS termies in a landraider, 20 Orks in a battlewagon or even Purifiers in a rhino. If your opponent rushes you they have to disembark. Why? Imagine that vehicle being immobilized from some shooting. Now imagine scarabs surrounding the vehicle (not hard if they pushed forwards 12" combined with beast movement). If you get to wreck it with scarabs there is no disembarking. Essentially they force your opponent to get out a turn early and accept a round of fire-power instead of being destroyed.

A worthy tactic? Or too random? I understand that you won't always get the result you want (i.e immobilized), but is it worth the risk to your opponent?

Looking for games in Shanghai? Send a PM 
   
Made in us
Awesome Autarch






San Diego, California

It works! It totally works, that is why you have to be ultra careful around scarabs. The tend to blow things up (as they hit the vehicle AFTER they entropic strike it) but a smart player will put just enough scarabs on the vehicle to take all the rear armor off, thus wrecking it, and killing all the guys inside.

Scarabs are brutal.

   
Made in cn
Sybarite Swinging an Agonizer





I listened to the podcasts, some interesting stuff.

Not sold on the scarabs, was trying a beast heavy WWP list with double harlequins as the delivery system against a friend with a 10 man scarab unit and 4 spyders;

Scarabs have a big footprint, you can mitigate some of their damage by hitting simultaneously on either end to reduce the counter attacks, or even hitting in bulk from one end. I know that you guys are rolling with 9 spyders but if you can use the size of the footprint of the scarabs against itself and win combat by a good portion if you can get the charge in first (position to reduce counter attacks, have WS 5, FNP/High T, good save, ie play the game your way) the fearless saves increase your damage output hopefully over what the spyders are putting out. You will also be dragging the scarabs away from the spyders which may see favourable results.

Point being, if you can hit that deathstar early with a decent bunch of CC units simultaneously, you may be able to overwhelm the horde with the fearless saves...

I assume you guys have tried this? Noone in the local Shanghai meta has gone down the 9 spyder path yet so we have to see.

The scarabs where at 14 when I hit them and none of the 3 squads of beasts had shown up. First round of cc they dropped to a manageable level. 35-37? Different story but that is if you let them sit and farm. Agree that some armies have no option here.

Also, my opponent had the wraiths nearby. I multicharged them and the subsequent turn multicharged the rest of the army... The scarabs had turned into a liability with the combat resolution results.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
OR, big scarab mob fo 35 bases, face a t7 MC like a Wraithlord or a Talos...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/11/30 05:36:07


2008 UK GT Heat 3 - 2nd (Eldar)
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