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Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:I like the look of the products but not the prices.
Have been very disappointed in the high cost of laser cut MDF tbh, as I was expecting it to be a cheap alternative to plastic or resin
This is a personal opinion of all laser cut MDF suppliers I have seen and not just Frontline.

MDF is cheap, laser cutting really isn't. I know of a company that charges up to £60 per hour and they're fighting customers off with a stick. Our laser has 3 separate filters that cost over £600 to replace, and MDF is a killer on them. It's a bit of a misconception that laser cutting should be a cheap alternative, what it does give you is the possibility of making a high quality kit with a consistent good finish without the huge startup cost of a plastic kit, or the awkwardness and casting difficulties (read: bubbles) of a resin kit. Basically you should see it as an alternative on par with resin or plastic. What you're getting is a lot more choice in your terrain, as little garage outfits like us can take a gamble on a design, and if it doesn't sell then you don't cut any and you haven't wasted loads of money on moulds.

I assumed that there might be costs involved with the lasers
But as for being on a par with resin, with respect there is no comparison. Much of the MDF sets I have seen lack finesse and in many cases detailing.
It looks more on a par with traditional wooden toys.

Guess that MDF is just not for me. If am expected to pay somewhere near the equivalent of a plastic kit, I may as well buy the plastic kit.

Lasercut wargames terrain's still pretty new, and as with any new thing there'll be a period where people get used to it. It's still a bit of a free for all at the moment, and there will a division between cheap basic stuff and heavily detailed complex kits. As with anything, the market'll filter out the dross.

As for resin, some of the stuff I've seen is absolutely shocking, riddled with bubbles, has flash all over it, wonky bottoms where the mould hasn't been flat, etc. There's always a sliding scale of quality and price. I would agree that plastic's still the best in terms of detail and you can do stuff you can't in lasered kits, but if you're determined to go plastic you'll find your options much more limited, as manufacturers aren't going to take a punt on an untested idea when there's such massive start up costs involved. Ultimately it's just another option that's opening up the range of stuff on the market, and that can only be a good thing. Now it's here we're only going to see more of it.

I agree that there is potential and having alternatives is advantageous

My point is that laser cut looks as though it is a compromise in detail and quality, without the economic benefits atm
Unless it can provide an alternative at a reduced cost I don't personally see any benefits. It presumably means, all things being equal, that the more detailed MDF sets are going to be even more expensive.

The benefit you're getting is choice, it's that simple. It may not be cheaper, but it may be more the look you like, and if you play a smaller less well known game, you may never see a plastic kit supporting it, but someone may be willing to take a punt on doing a laser cut kit because if it doesn't sell they haven't wasted thousands of pounds.

If your defining metric is price, it'll probably never be for you, eapecially if there's a comparable plastic kit, but choice has a value of its own. If you have very limited space for your hobby, suddenly bring able to flat pack your terrain between games may be worth more to you than 3D skulls.

That is what I said at the outset that they are not going to be for me

I am not talking 3D skulls. I am referring to the architectural pieces MDF is being used for. The MDF stuff is adequate in terms of having a structure that is sturdy but a tad basic in design and generally lacking detail.

With respect the majority of the products I have seen just do not come up to the standards of cast materials for obvious reasons.
My budget is sadly not big enough for resin buildings
Looks like I will just have to spend a lot of time making my own. I am just a bit disappointed that MDF has not proved to be a cheaper alternative
I don't doubt your reasons for the costs involved and am grateful to for the explaination

But please no accusations of wanting skullz! *shudder*

You wont be interested in our new skully skully skullington fortress of skulls with added skull detail plates then? It's got skulls on it!

WarMill wrote:You wont be interested in our new skully skully skullington fortress of skulls with added skull detail plates then? It's got skulls on it!

Preorder and availability??!?!?!?!??

Can I put it on my Khorne Skullington Anniversary Visa Card?

I believe the cost is not the materials themselves, but the time associated with production. It takes a long time to make each kit, form what I have been told.

Ultimately it is a decision for each individual to make, if they think it is a value worth their money. The kits are really big though, and I can say with no reservations that they look fantastic on the table top, which is why we decided to carry the line at our store.

Those look cool.. i guess the cans could be scratch built pretty easily

Dreadnought96 wrote:Those look cool.. i guess the cans could be scratch built pretty easily

It's a soda can, dude. Most people will literally give you empty soda cans for free, and if all else fails you can go down to Wal-Mart and get a can from the vending machine for about 25 cents... you'll even get a soda to boot!

Really nice and waaay too expensive kits! They look awesome for being MDF! But I would probably never buy them since there are cheaper and more detailed kits out there to pimp my soda cans...

http://www.frontlinegaming.org/2011/11/15/742/

Here's a video for scale purposes. As you guys can see, the terrain is really big.

I like the containers.

Needs more skulls though....definitely more skulls.

Reecius wrote:It is laser cut wood, Orlanth. The resin was too brittle in testing, and broke a lot, from what i was told. The Acrylic was too expensive, and the wood proved to be strong, affordable and easy to come by.

@mad4minis
Yeah, for sure! That is what we were thinking, too.

You would triple quality immediately if you had resin plug ins with this kit, you wouldnt need many, the consoles could really do with a resin plug in. Frankly, you could leave it at that, only the consoles really stand out as crude.

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:
I am not talking 3D skulls. I am referring to the architectural pieces MDF is being used for. The MDF stuff is adequate in terms of having a structure that is sturdy but a tad basic in design and generally lacking detail.

WarMill wrote:Lasercut wargames terrain's still pretty new, and as with any new thing there'll be a period where people get used to it. It's still a bit of a free for all at the moment, and there will a division between cheap basic stuff and heavily detailed complex kits. As with anything, the market'll filter out the dross.

MDF terrain can be both well detailed AND cost effective. An excellent example is MAS' HDF Apartment Block. This thing's 8" tall, with interior detail, and costs under $40USD.



As per my earlier comment, I'm not trying to take customers from Reecius but saying that there are good quality, well detailed MDF kits already out there which are, comparably, much cheaper in price and I think this producer is shooting themselves in the foot by charging so much for something that is, comparatively, quite basic.

Orlanth wrote:

Reecius wrote:It is laser cut wood, Orlanth. The resin was too brittle in testing, and broke a lot, from what i was told. The Acrylic was too expensive, and the wood proved to be strong, affordable and easy to come by.

@mad4minis
Yeah, for sure! That is what we were thinking, too.

You would triple quality immediately if you had resin plug ins with this kit, you wouldnt need many, the consoles could really do with a resin plug in. Frankly, you could leave it at that, only the consoles really stand out as crude.

A resin plugin? I am not familiar with that, we are on the retail end of it, not the production end, so I am unfamiliar with all of the manufacturing terms. Would you mind explaining?

@ancient society
If I am not mistaken, those are made in Poland. I would imagine currency differences account for some of the price discrepancy, although that is just a guess.

Those are sweet kits though.

Reecius wrote:

Orlanth wrote:

You would triple quality immediately if you had resin plug ins with this kit, you wouldnt need many, the consoles could really do with a resin plug in. Frankly, you could leave it at that, only the consoles really stand out as crude.

A resin plugin? I am not familiar with that, we are on the retail end of it, not the production end, so I am unfamiliar with all of the manufacturing terms. Would you mind explaining?

Produce the laser cut wood kit as normal except where you have a console moade of wood with crude detail have an empty rectangular bracket.
Then cast a set of resin pieces to fit into the bracket holes.

Best of both worlds, large strong and cost effective bulk with resin details for quality. Girders need not have detail they could be at full scale just what we see, heavy duty preformed metal construction components. The console needs a little more detail, screens, controls, power relays, fuseboxes etc; all small scale stuff benefiting from detail.

As you explained after my post you sell rather than make the item, so the explanation may be lost on you, but I replied out of courtesy.