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Frazzled wrote:

Albatross wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

Healthcare: modified Canadian style eh! Or more relevantly. Lets look at the top 25 medical systems globally, and implement the best, most efficient systems (here’s a hint UK’s aint one).

Hint: Yes it is.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10375877

The UK's health care system is the most efficient, says a study of seven industrialised countries.

The Commonwealth Fund report looked at five areas of performance - quality, efficiency, access to care, equity and healthy lives.

The US came last in the overall rankings, which also included data from Australia, Canada, Germany, the Netherlands and New Zealand.

Plus, there's also the WHO rankings from 2000 which placed the UK in 18th, 19 places above the USA. I know you have this weird chip on your shoulder about the British, but that doesn't mean you get to just tell lies. And why even mention the UK at all? What has that got to do with your political outlook? Do you really have that much of an inferiority complex that you have to define yourself in relation to us?

I wipe my ass with the WHO or frankly anything from the UN.

The Commonwealth Fund is not affiliated with the UN. It's an American organisation. Grow up, Frazzled.

Well then I need to up my standards to top 5. We hear horror stories about UK medical. I don't hear horror stories about Canadian, Swiss, or German systems.

According to the American organisation that commissioned the 2010 report featured in the BBC article you ignored, those three finish lower than the UK. Also, the horror stories you hear are politically motivated, just like the horror stories I hear about the US system. Grow up, Frazzled.

Thanks for the insult.

What insult? Grow up, Frazzled.

My mother went through a cat scan, MRI, and PET on the same day of the doctor's order coming down. Do you even get you own room in the UK? Can you do that in the UK? If not shut the up about your inferiority complex nonsense.

Yes, you can get all of those things in the UK if you go private. The difference in the UK is that going private is not your only option, and that going private won't bankrupt you either. Grow up, Frazzled.

Edit: I will quit on this. My point is that I recognize there is weakness in the US system and believe we should look at the best systems in the world and take from them what is best. From reports I read during the Obamacare fun, the Swiss and Canadian systems were viewed as particularly strong. See what they do right and what we do right and incorporate them together.

Yes, there are weaknesses in the US system, no, the UK system isn't perfect - the thing I find amusing is your neuralgia about admitting that the British do something better. It's fine! Just learn from this and grow. You don't have to be a slave to your national mythology. Once again - grow up, Frazzled.

Gun Control: the Constitution is quite clear that the right to keep and bear is not to be infringed, period. Do I need a tank? No. Should I be able to procure one, yes.

Imagine the selling pitch for this home defense weapon?

Jihadin wrote:

Gun Control: the Constitution is quite clear that the right to keep and bear is not to be infringed, period. Do I need a tank? No. Should I be able to procure one, yes.

Imagine the selling pitch for this home defense weapon?

It's actually a great idea. Think about it: You're a burglar. Do you burgle the house with a tank parked in front of it, or do you think to yourself 'feth that! They're crazy! I'm going next door, they might only have a gun!'

Jihadin wrote:

Gun Control: the Constitution is quite clear that the right to keep and bear is not to be infringed, period. Do I need a tank? No. Should I be able to procure one, yes.

Imagine the selling pitch for this home defense weapon?

Like this but the rustlers are clouds of red mist.

Albatross wrote:

Jihadin wrote:

Gun Control: the Constitution is quite clear that the right to keep and bear is not to be infringed, period. Do I need a tank? No. Should I be able to procure one, yes.

Imagine the selling pitch for this home defense weapon?

It's actually a great idea. Think about it: You're a burglar. Do you burgle the house with a tank parked in front of it, or do you think to yourself 'feth that! They're crazy! I'm going next door, they might only have a gun!'

Ah, but what if they snuck in the back way? not everyone is as willing to lob tank shell into their home as i would be to crush some ahole!
and handgun/rifle/shotgun/bow accidents are bad enough. "Honestly officer! he was just cleaning the barrell and it went off!".

Please stop hassling Frazzled about his healthcare opinions; please start a new thread if you want to do that.

alarmingrick wrote:

Albatross wrote:

Jihadin wrote:

Gun Control: the Constitution is quite clear that the right to keep and bear is not to be infringed, period. Do I need a tank? No. Should I be able to procure one, yes.

Imagine the selling pitch for this home defense weapon?

It's actually a great idea. Think about it: You're a burglar. Do you burgle the house with a tank parked in front of it, or do you think to yourself 'feth that! They're crazy! I'm going next door, they might only have a gun!'

h. "Honestly officer! he was just cleaning the tank tracks and it went off!".

Fix'd

What would you describe as your political affiliation?
Centrist, pretty much. There's

How do you generally vote?
The last election was the first time I voted for our left wing party, as after ten year of conservative government I felt the Labor party had more ideas to take us forward. Before that Howard's government had done very well, and I'd been happy to support them.

What sources do you get your political news from?
Mostly on-line, as it lets me pick out the stuff I want to read about. I use a few blogs, like Paul Krugman's, the Economist, and an evangelical commentator called the slacktivist for my daily reading. Since living with my fiance I've gone back to watching the nightly news, which is more and more just absent of anything particularly important, and is instead just an anecdotal list of the day's crimes and accidents.

... and how often do you do so?
Daily.

Abortion:
I'm fine with it, because I don't believe that a fertilised egg is a person, but I recognise that there's no clear, objective standard for exactly when a developing human becomes a human, so I'm fine with people being opposed to it, and think if a majority believe it to be a human life, they are well within their rights to ban it.

Gay Marriage/Marriage Equality:
I'm absolutely for it. There is simply no reason to deny people access to a social institution because they happen to love someone of the same sex.

Religion:
I'm an atheist, but I believe strongly that there is great wisdom in many religious views, and think we can all gain a great deal from hearing the religious views of others in an open, honest format.

Global Warning\Climate Change:
97% of climate change scientists active in the field believe climate change is real and it is caused by man. I have respsect for science, and respect for experts, and so I believe them. Further, I think it is an act of incredible arrogance for anyone to believe that without a similar level of education, they might know better.

Gun Control:
I'm pretty iffy on this one. It seems that gun violence is driven more by economic, social and cultural conditions, but one of the major cultural factors is the fixation on society being so deadly and horrible that a person might need a gun in the first place.

Healthcare:
Specifically American healthcare? The cost is outrageous for what you're getting, and reforms informed by much cheaper, much more effective systems around the world could deliver better outcomes for much less money. As well as saving lives and preventing the massive number of bankruptcies it causes, it's the most important reform in bringing the budget deficit under control long term.

OWS:
They have genuine grievances, but they need to be smarter, more organised and more focussed in order to bring about any kind of change.

Capital Punishment\Death Penalty
I'm opposed, but not as much as I was when I was younger. These days I can't help but see that whether we lock the criminal up or kill him, his life is wasted, as well as the life of his victim, and what we really need to worry about is preventing the crime in the first place.

What do you think about the 2012 US Presidential election?
Obama is hurt by the terrible economy, but still stands a good chance because the Republican field is so weak.

What do you do for a living?
Accountant.

What would you describe as your political affiliation?
Jedi

How do you generally vote?
The Council makes all the decisions.

What sources do you get your political news from?
Mos Eisley Radio, Coruscant Network News, NPR

... and how often do you do so?
Whenever I am with range of the signal.

How do you feel about...

Abortion: Before Anakin anti, post Anikin, pro

Gay Marriage/Marriage Equality: If a Wookie and a Zabrak can marry, why should gender matter?

Religion: Jedi

Global Warning\Climate Change: Depends on the planet. Better living through terraforming.

Gun Control: Fairly happy with the current levels availability and training as most people can't hit the broad side of a Jawa Sandcrawler. I have to waste less time blocking.

Healthcare: The Force provides, as does our HMO.

OWS: Obi Wan's Schlong is not something we talk about in polite society.

Capital Punishment\Death Penalty: Before Anakin anti, post Anikin, pro

What do you do for a living?
Jedi

Ahtman wrote: Abortion: Before Anakin anti, post Anikin, pro
Capital Punishment\Death Penalty: Before Anakin anti, post Anikin, pro

Word.
but messah think you forgittin' someones.....

Ahtman wrote:What would you describe as your political affiliation?
Jedi

Religion: Jedi

What do you do for a living?
Jedi

This is a beautiful, beautiful thing.

What would you describe as your political affiliation?
Liberal although I like some aspects of Conservatism and Socialism as well.

How do you generally vote?
By writing the name of a candidate on a piece of paper provided to me at the ballot.

What sources do you get your political news from?
Internet, newspapers and TV.

... and how often do you do so?
Not that often, politics is quite dry at times.

Abortion:
It's the woman's body, it should be her choice on what she should do with it.

Gay Marriage/Marriage Equality:
Homosexuals should be able to marry like the rest of us.

Religion:
Atheist, but have no problem with religion as long as you aren't stepping on the freedom of others.

Global Warning\Climate Change:
I believe scientists are being honest to me.

Gun Control:
I shouldn't need guns to feel safe in my country, the RCMP do a fine job of keeping the citizens protected. Hunting-grade weapons should be allowed though for both self-defense and for recreation.

Healthcare:
Universal healthcare except for things like minor cosmetics.

OWS:
Don't know what that is.

Capital Punishment\Death Penalty
I think the gift of life is the greatest phenomenon in the universe to have that removed would be horrible.

What do you think about the 2012 US Presidential election?
Unless the Republicans pull out a really good candidate then I'm going to have to say Obama.

What do you do for a living?
I work at a fast-food chain known as Wendy's.

What would you describe as your political affiliation?
none. was republican,but i wont sign up as any group.

How do you generally vote?
cant vote yet,but so far republicans in school votes and most view...which ive only had an opinion for the past one,which obama was in....yeah. this time around,who knows?

What sources do you get your political news from?
dakka dakka mostly

... and how often do you do so?
ranging form too much to never.

How do you feel about...
i like ... alot!

Abortion: no. if you dont want it,adoption.
Gay Marriage/Marriage Equality: not for it, but to be honest,unless were talking politically,i could care less. just dont come at me after i tell you im not,and we could even be friends...well,if i like people,that is.
Religion: Christianity, but very laxed about it and dont like any of the branches,all too stuck up about dressing up and such.
Global Warning\Climate Change: well,its snowing in texas more than it ever has,so obviously somethings up. so keep it up,im liking this odd white powder!
Gun Control: if they want a tank,and they have the money for it,they should be able to get a tank.
Healthcare: no,the government should not control this in any way.
OWS: no real opinion. wall street crashes alot,so if you put your money there,your fault...or something.
Capital Punishment\Death Penalty wheres the switch?

What do you think about the 2012 US Presidential election?
haven't looked into it much. once it gets close to the time,and it airs everywhere,ill start listening.

What do you do for a living?
...reminds me,i need to get a bloody job. warhammer,you soo expensive!!!!

What would you describe as your political affiliation? Not Affiliated with a Political Party. Closest would be Libertarian.

How do you generally vote? Libertarian, Republican, Democrat, and the very occassional Socialist, depending on position, local, state level, or national, with a avriety of other factors like who else is running.

What sources do you get your political news from? Various Radio Stations, followed by fact checking research online.

... and how often do you do so? 5+ days a week

How do you feel about...

Abortion: Touchy issue that people blow way out of proportion. Personally not for me. Is it a right that should be legislated on a national level? No. Should it be legislated on a state level? Yes. I figure the states that would have legal abortion, would far outweigh the rest today compared to 1973. The process of partial birth abortion makes me very squeamish and can not condone. Other than that, I beleive there needs to be more rights and decision making for the fathers.

Gay Marriage/Marriage Equality: Government should not be involved in marriage, or tax law with regards to marriage. Marriage should be done by a recognized religion. So yes, Same sex marriage should exist and be on par with heterosexual marriage.

Religion: That is a personal matter, for me, for you, for everyone. As long as you are not endangering anyone, to each their own.

Global Warning\Climate Change: The climate always changes, for more reasons than most people, even scientists seem to be able to grasp. There is no sufficient evidence to cause a panic or wide sweeping large scale changes on how life is currently lived.

Gun Control: In the USA, there are 3 major reasons to own weapons. 1 : hunting. 2 : defense of self and home from criminals. 3 defense of self from the Government. The Second Ammendment was written to ensure the First. On that note, a sane non-criminal in the USA should be able to own, knives, handguns, hunting rifles, semi auto assault rifles, and military grade weaponry, burst fire and fully automatic, cannons, mortars, grenades and armour assets. In most states, gun legislation puts the people at a severe disadvantage to the government, should an armed conflict happen.

Healthcare: Cash payable. Get healthcare back to competing like most other consumer businesses. Currently, most customers have no idea what costs what, and many doctors offices can not even quote you a cash price readily. Get rid of the middleman "health care insurance" industry for the most part. Average doctors visit checkup which I do every year costs $100, which I pay in cash. This does not break the bank. I do not visit the doctors office for the sniffles, and do my part to keep myself as healthy as I can.

OWS: They have every right to speak their mind and protest, but are subject to time place and manner restrictions like everyone else. They need to follow the laws, meaning, get a permit and abide by it.

Capital Punishment\Death Penalty : I accept this, because l think the process needs to be a little quicker. It should be kept in use for the worst of the worst of the worst. The victims families should be able to carry out the sentence.

What do you think about the 2012 US Presidential election? It should be interesting for the most part as it always is, and then there will be a lot of it that is really dull, same ole same ole, and then people will vote. I am not sure how to anwer such a vague question.

What do you do for a living? Small business owner, manufacturing and sales of BDSM toys.

• Political affiliation: Right-leaning, liberal-leaning centrist. Which many people have accused of being inherently contradictory, but eh.

• Voting: Whatever fits my views best, or the opposition party in the case of Texas state legislation (not like it matters anyway, and any shake-up that shocks the neocons in our state legislature is a good thing).

• Political news: CNN and The Economist, usually.

• How often: Daily to some extent.

• Abortion: Women's choice. Birth control should be covered by healthcare.

• Gay Marriage/Marriage Equality: Complete and utter marriage equality for the GBLT community.

• Religion: Fine if isn't taken to the extreme, like most things.

• Global Warning\Climate Change: We're causing it, and need effectively enforced regulation (or specifically targeted subsidies) at least to slow it down.

• Gun Control: Licensing and background checks are more than enough. The licensing process needs to be cleaned up though, and it's annoying how non-standard everything is.

• Healthcare: The Pharmaceutical Industry is the most corrupt industry in the USA, and needs STRONG regulation and reformation to reduce prices and ensure safer, more targeted drugs.

• OWS: A for effort and I agree with their message of "the rich and powerful control our government too much"... but they need to get it in their heads that it's a bad thing if people treat them like tantrum-throwing children.

• Capital Punishment\Death Penalty: Need much more stringent control on this. I'm fine with executing a serial rapist or something, but too often an innocent slips through the system.

• 2012 US Presidential election: It's a circus in the Republican primary as they rush to find any not-Romneys. Currently, Romney and Huntsman are probably the only ones to stand a chance in the election proper. Obama stands a good chance at winning as long as he plays his cards right either way.

• Job: Student, majoring in Chemistry.

What would you describe as your political affiliation?
left and socialist leaning centrist
How do you generally vote?
Can't yet, but will probably vote for the Australian Labour Party or Shooters Party
What sources do you get your political news from?
Anywhere and everywhere that isn't fox news really
... and how often do you do so?
about once every couple of days
How do you feel about...

Abortion: Go for your life, infact, the state should foot the bill
Gay Marriage/Marriage Equality: Abolish marriage altogether, it is an archaic and unnessecary institution
Religion: Personally I am an atheist and misotheist, my views are that it should abolished altogether (see above)
Global Warning\Climate Change: Indifferent, it is merely another pressure of natural selection, we either adapt and survive or don't and die
Gun Control: Ours should be the same as America's
Healthcare: Purely state controlled and legislated
OWS: Learn to actually find a cause and we can talk, while we are at it, we should probably just dump capitalism and replace it with a meritocracy
Capital Punishment\Death Penalty: Support this 110% infact, we should probably lower the bar a bit as well

What do you think about the 2012 US Presidential election?: [b]Indifferent unless their foreign policy wants to try and feth over Australia

What do you do for a living? Student (going into Information Technology, likely database/network management) and part-time McDonald's burger maker (I'm a cog in the machine, problem hippies?)

What would you describe as your political affiliation?
Conservative

How do you generally vote?
Independent

What sources do you get your political news from?
its whatever gets delivered to my phone until it comes election time. So pretty much a bunch of different e-newspapers

... and how often do you do so?
weekly.

How do you feel about...

Abortion:
Against.

Gay Marriage/Marriage Equality:
I'm personally against it, but in the end I don't care a whole lot about it. It's a minor issue in comparison with the other issues at the moment.

Religion:
I think the neutral culture needs to be protected, but allow people to celebrate their holidays freely. If someone wants to say merry Christmas they should have that right without being told they're being insensitive.

Global Warning\Climate Change:
It's all a part of a natural cycle. We must learn to adapt to survive. On the other hand, the green tech is nice and being careful with our resources is a wise move imho.

Gun Control:
Within reason

Healthcare:
Universal healthcare would be nice, but we need to get our budget back in check first.

OWS:
Meh.

Capital Punishment\Death Penalty
If the trial is fair and there is a unanimous decision and a fair appeal then its fine.

What do you think about the 2012 US Presidential election?
I doubt Obama will win, but he's certainly not out of it.

What do you do for a living?
Student working part time at a burger joint

Obi Wan Shlong......so sword practice without lightsabers?

What would you describe as your political affiliation?

Bull Moose Party with some few libertarian ideas.

How do you generally vote?

Whoever fits with my concerns. I have voted for Democrats, Republicans, and some of those other parties you rarely hear about.

What sources do you get your political news from?

A variety of things. MSNBC, CNN, Washington Post town hall , variety of others on occasion from Huff to Chicago tribune. But I see Fox News as the conservative comedy central with the comedy a lot more dry.

I like to get variety throughout the week.

... and how often do you do so?

Daily.

How do you feel about...

Abortion:

Don't agree with it, but when it comes down to it. If people really want an abortion they will find how to do it one way or another. May as well allow abortion to have it in a clean safe enviorment rather than in the creepy guy's basement. I do feel the father should have a choice.

And education on abortion and adoption alternatives should always be taught before hand and give them X days to think about it.

But there is nothing more disgusting than those Fake Christians who are pro-life until you are born. After that, they have a Go F*** yourself attitude.

Gay Marriage/Marriage Equality:

I love 2 women going at it.

Religion:

Raised Catholic, but I really just believe in being a good person, as cliche as that may sound. Nothing wrong with religion, unless you are a Pat Robertson type.

Global Warning\Climate Change:

I believe in it. Seen fare to much evidence. But to what extent are humans guilty of it? I don't know.


Gun Control:

Love guns. I own a few dozen myself. But no one should be able to just go out and buy a gun no questions ask. I see nothing wrong with a background check.


Healthcare: Not sure, Our current system needs major improvements. Millions are uninsured and insurance broke. People who are without insurance just past on costs to those with insurance. I am not sure if "Universal Health Care" or "Medicare for All" is the correct route to go. I have no issue with higher taxes, as my health insurance as is, is already sky high.

My concern is will we still have people wanting to go into nursing and medicine with "universal care" with salaries being lower in that system? We already have a Doctor and Nurse shortage.


OWS: They have some good ideas. They have some bat gak crazy ideas.

Capital Punishment\Death Penalty I flipflop on this topic way too much.

What do you think about the 2012 US Presidential election? Someone will win. America will lose. I just hope not by a lot.

What do you do for a living?

Student (going into special education)
Waiter
and do some pluming and lawnmower/snow blower repair on the side.

What would you describe as your political affiliation? Conservative

How do you generally vote? Republican or Independent.

What sources do you get your political news from? Internet, local news, radio.

... and how often do you do so? Daily, I have a long commute.

How do you feel about...

Abortion: Is not a constitutional right.
Gay Marriage/Marriage Equality: Is not a constitutional right.
Religion: Is a constitutional right.
Global Warning\Climate Change: Probably a hoax, but have no problem with others believing as long as they don't try to impose their beliefs on me.
Gun Control: Is unconstitutional.
Healthcare: I like health care. I would like to keep it.
OWS: Bunch of criminals, rapists, and general miscreants.
Capital Punishment\Death Penalty: Have no problem with it.

What do you think about the 2012 US Presidential election? I think it's a good thing. We should do this every 4 years or so.

What do you do for a living? professional liar

biccat wrote:
Religion: Is a constitutional right.

And yet we frown on religiously motivated terrorism.

Its almost as if the Constitution required interpretation, and was not the iron-clad foundation of law that some believe it to be.

dogma wrote:

biccat wrote:
Religion: Is a constitutional right.

And yet we frown on religiously motivated terrorism.

Its almost as if the Constitution required interpretation, and was not the iron-clad foundation of law that some believe it to be.

"And yet we frown on religiously motivated terrorism"
"Religiously motived terrorism"
"Terrorism"
Good job, America frowns on terrorism.

Jollydevil wrote:
"And yet we frown on religiously motivated terrorism"
"Religiously motived terrorism"
"Terrorism"
Good job, America frowns on terrorism.

I don't see a prohibition against terrorism in the Constitution. Certainly other laws have created such prohibitions, but respecting them in this particular case would mean ignoring the prohibition against laws respecting religions that require terrorist activities in favor the pragmatic concern over terrorism being undesirable.

dogma wrote:

Jollydevil wrote:
"And yet we frown on religiously motivated terrorism"
"Religiously motived terrorism"
"Terrorism"
Good job, America frowns on terrorism.

I don't see a prohibition against terrorism in the Constitution. Certainly other laws have created such prohibitions, but respecting them in this particular case would mean ignoring the prohibition against laws respecting religions that require terrorist activities in favor the pragmatic concern over terrorism being undesirable.

So basically America should tolerate things like Satanism and terrorism simply because theyre religious?
You baffle me.

He's making the point that simply because religious expression is protected by the Constitution doesn't mean we protect ALL acts motivated by religion. The Constitution is the highest law in the land, but we still modify and interpret its contents for practical purposes, and as the times move forward and some parts become less or differently-relevant.

BTW, Satanism is protected like every other religion.

What would you describe as your political affiliation? Liberal Independent, leaning in some areas toward Socialism and others toward Constitutionalism.

How do you generally vote? Holding my nose, for Dems. Occasionally for centrist Republicans (rare as they're getting, we still have some in NH) or whoever's anti-incumbent if the incumbent is bad enough, regardless of party.

What sources do you get your political news from? Various websites, NPR, Daily Show.

... and how often do you do so? Multiple times a day when campaign season's really in swing and I'm into it. Ranging from daily to every few days in slower times and when Real Life is intruding more directly on my day to day life.

How do you feel about...

Abortion: A sad necessity. I think the beginning of electrical activity in the brain of the conceptus is the best guess for a point before which I don't think there's a moral or ethical problem. After that I'd rather it not happen, but I'm honest enough to admit that if men could get pregnant, we'd make darn sure it was legal as late as we wanted it. The right to the decision has to be in the hands of the woman. If it was potentially my child I'd like to have a say, but it has to be her decision.

Gay Marriage/Marriage Equality: There are no good or reasonable arguments against it, as far as I'm concerned.

Religion: Often a wonderful comfort and a boon inspiration to great and good acts. Sadly misused in many cases as a tool of power, and a way of inflicting and perpetuating ignorance and intolerance. I'm personally Neopagan.

Global Warning\Climate Change: As other people pointed out, 97+% of the folks who seriously, professionally study it are agreed that it's happening and that human activity/industry are at the very least contributing to it. I don't dismiss the views of a large consensus of scientists regarding anything else, either. I'm pretty disturbed at the extent to which in my country there seems to be a concerted, politically and profit-motivated campaign to cast doubt on this and dismiss it as a hoax. I worry that it's potentially going to be of great harm to us in the long term, for no purpose other than short term profits and a stubborn resistance to changing our habits.

Gun Control: I don't think it's necessary beyond making sure the cops generally have access to better stuff than your average wannabe bank robber can get. I don't think the Second Amendment should be read as absolutely as some folks insist. It's no longer practical or possible for armed citizens to overthrow a tyrannical government or for any foreign country to invade us. That said, folks in situations like some places in the Southwest, with the border troubles, certainly should have the means to protect themselves from criminals on their property. While I envy the low rates of gun deaths in most countries with stricter gun control, I don't think that's the only factor. Canadians have a high rate of gun ownership too, but they don't shoot themselves/each other at nearly the rate we do. So part of it has got to be our culture.

Healthcare: We should have an NHS, or something like the German system. There should be private care available, supplementary to a strong public healthcare system. The for-profit model of healthcare is just as dumb as for-profit Fire Departments were, and as for-profit Police and Armies would be.

OWS: Frustratingly vague in goals, and possessed of too many earnest clowns. That said, the basic concept is laudable. Peaceful protest to the inequities of our system and the way the poor and middle class have been increasingly sold out over the last three decades, over the too-loud voice of moneyed interests in our politics, is admirable.

Capital Punishment\Death Penalty: Some crimes certainly merit it. But our justice system is always going to be too imperfect to make it a reliably appropriate punishment. We can almost never be 100% sure of guilt, but we can always be 100% sure that someone who's dead will never get the chance to prove their innocence, or see themselves exonerated. A really frighteningly-high percentage of people on death row have been later exonerated by DNA evidence. Life imprisonment without chance of parole is as high as sentences should go.

What do you think about the 2012 US Presidential election? I'm kind of sad, and kind of glad that the crop of GOP candidates is as bad as it is. Obama's been disappointing. Way too compromising and not steadfast enough in defense of the principles and policies for which we voted for him. But the GOP, overall, is a terrible alternative. Huntsman and Romney, at least, look not to be nutjobs, but still seem morally-bankrupt, dishonest and incompetent. The rest of the candidates are even worse.

What do you do for a living? I work for a payment processing company, in merchant services administration.

Throw Wiccan up in there to

Gun Control well 8 day waiting period

Mannahnin wrote:

BTW, Satanism is protected like every other religion.

So is Jihadism, however the atrocities people commit while in it arent.

Jollydevil wrote:

Mannahnin wrote:

BTW, Satanism is protected like every other religion.

So is Jihadism, however the atrocities people commit while in it arent.

Jihadism isn't a religion. Of course crimes are still crimes even when done in the name of religion- now you're making Dogma's point. Even though the Constitution is the highest law in the land, and the First Amendment guarantees the free expression of religion, we still don't allow crimes to be excused by that.

Satanism isn't inherently criminal, though. We had a weird moral panic about it in the US in the 80s, but no actual religiously-motivated Satanic crimes or conspiracies were ever found. Just a ton of urban legends. The sociologist Jeffrey Victor wrote a really interesting book, Satanic Panic about it; I wrote a paper on it in school.

Not sure if you two notice....