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Notice what?

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works both way

Mannahnin wrote:Satanism isn't inherently criminal, though. We had a weird moral panic about it in the US in the 80s, but no actual religiously-motivated Satanic crimes or conspiracies were ever found. Just a ton of urban legends. The sociologist Jeffrey Victor wrote a really interesting book, Satanic Panic about it; I wrote a paper on it in school.

Have you ever read any of Bob Larson's books on the subject?

I can't recommend them enough; you will laugh your balls off. He, quite seriously, outlines the dangers of Satanic influence on American youth. I think you'll particularly enjoy the D&D bits.

Here you are.

http://www.amazon.com/Satanism-Seduction-Americas-Bob-Larson/dp/0840730349/ref=sr_1_6?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1322335790&sr=1-6

Why did the Bible Belt pop in my mind......

Point was, They both have to do with religion, but that doesnt mean they can practice killing people and say the constitution protects them.
I believe I misunderstood Dogma earlier, I hope we're on. The same page here.
And yep, I do notice Jihadin.

I believe there is no 2 party system in the US and we are all being trolled hard

Monster Rain wrote:

Mannahnin wrote:Satanism isn't inherently criminal, though. We had a weird moral panic about it in the US in the 80s, but no actual religiously-motivated Satanic crimes or conspiracies were ever found. Just a ton of urban legends. The sociologist Jeffrey Victor wrote a really interesting book, Satanic Panic about it; I wrote a paper on it in school.

Have you ever read any of Bob Larson's books on the subject?

I can't recommend them enough; you will laugh your balls off. He, quite seriously, outlines the dangers of Satanic influence on American youth. I think you'll particularly enjoy the D&D bits.

Just watched a bit of Norwegian TV where they did a special on him in his role as an Exorcist, and set up a meeting between him and Necrobutcher, the guitarist from Mayhem.

I honestly don't find those people funny. My great-uncle shut me down when I mentioned D&D over his house one Holiday. My grandmother, after she had a stroke in the 80s and went a bit crazy, fell into that 700 Club stuff. She had one of them call me up at home one day when my folks were out and "save" me over the phone. These folks are honestly kind of scary and repulsive, to me. Moreso than the few Satanists I've met, to be quite honest. (Although the Satanists are usually jerks).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Jollydevil wrote:Point was, They both have to do with religion, but that doesnt mean they can practice killing people and say the constitution protects them.
I believe I misunderstood Dogma earlier, I hope we're on. The same page here.
And yep, I do notice Jihadin.

Okay, so you're now making the same point Dogma was and which I was explaining to you. Got it.

You're just somehow also confusing Satanists with murderers; probably as a product of hearing those urban legends I mentioned.

Satanism is a dangerous influence in todays youth? I was actually thinking the wanna be gang bangers was the issue..

Jihadin wrote:Satanism is a dangerous influence in todays youth? .

Nope, and never has been. That doesn't stop so-called Christian authors, televangelists, and paid speakers from pretending that is a threat, making up tales about dangerous Satanists and pagans (which they often wrongly conflate), and selling their lies to the credulous.

Footloose just popped into my mind...the Kevin Bacon one

Mannahnin wrote:
Moreso than the few Satanists I've met, to be quite honest. (Although the Satanists are usually jerks).

It goes with the egoism, generally. Oddly I've found similar mentalities to be common among 700 Club devotees, despite ostensibly being about service to a higher power.

After seeing it on Dakka a few dozen times I finally looked up the 700 club, then saw Pat Robertson's name and it all became clear. Those people are as dangerous to the body public as satanists and jihadists.
Although the wiki thing said something about relating the news to bible passages, I could get on board with that just not from the 700 club

AustonT wrote:After seeing it on Dakka a few dozen times I finally looked up the 700 club, then saw Pat Robertson's name and it all became clear. Those people are as dangerous to the body public as satanists and jihadists.
Although the wiki thing said something about relating the news to bible passages, I could get on board with that just not from the 700 club

But Robertson can leg press 2000 lbs, clearly that makes him a trustworthy, credible, and not at all profit-seeking Christian leader.

What would you describe as your political affiliation?

Socialistic meritocrat.

I think a basic standard of living should be guaranteed (food, water, shelter,) by the State. However, the quality of it should be determined by precisely what you've put into the state. So someone who's leeched off the system for ten years gets subsistence level living, someone who paid their tax for twenty years without a murmur who just got made redundant should get a comfortable living allowance, until they get back on their feet.

Education and health care should generally be taken care of by the state, including free University education for any of those who are capable (note that I think half the universities should be closed down, as half the student populace are not capable, and there through social and governmental pressure. Over 120 Universities is too many, only the top seventy or so have qualifications worth anything, or publish research worth a damn).

How do you generally vote?

Depends on how irritating the current government is.

What sources do you get your political news from?

The Times Newspaper, like a Gentleman.

... and how often do you do so?

Every one to two days.

How do you feel about...

Abortion:

The ladies choice. Forcing a woman to carry a baby to term means you're either slicing her open to get it out, or forcing her to give birth. Which in my mind, is equivalent to GBH. Foetuses are not sentient, they are not even independently alive.

Gay Marriage/Marriage Equality:

It should be equal before the eyes of the State. The only reasons given for it not to be are grounded in sociological repression left over from the Dark Ages.

Religion:

Do what you want. Don't shove it in my face.

Global Warning\Climate Change:

I'm not sufficiently educated in the field to even pretend to have an opinion worth listening to.

Gun Control:

Good and bad for both. It really depends on which set of circumstances you prefer.

Capital Punishment\Death Penalty

It exists anyway. Assassination is a grand old part of intelligence work, and war is nothing more than state sanctioned murder.

Not that I'm saying I disagree with that mind, but believing that our current government doesn't collaborate in the torture and murder of people it considers a threat is simply naive. We just hide it better than most tinpot dictators.

What do you think about the 2012 US Presidential election?

Couldn't care less. American politics is something I have virtually no interest in.

What do you do for a living?

I'm a postgraduate student in War Studies.

Mannahnin wrote:(Although the Satanists are usually jerks)

Out of curiosity were they theistic or laveyan satanists? There's a huge difference (for example: actually believing in the existance of satan)

A Kvlt Ghost wrote:

Mannahnin wrote:(Although the Satanists are usually jerks)

Out of curiosity were they theistic or laveyan satanists? There's a huge difference (for example: actually believing in the existance of satan)

Both. I didn't get to know any of them well, but they largely all came off as self-centered jerks.

What would you describe as your political affiliation?
left wing

How do you generally vote?
if i were american, id vote for democrats for sure
What sources do you get your political news from?
german independent newpapers like "taz"

... and how often do you do so
daily

How do you feel about...

Abortion:
face it, its murder (exept in early stages maybe)
Gay Marriage/Marriage Equality:
dont care/ why would anyone want to ban it?
Religion:
atheist, and i dont like people telling me i shoul believe in god
Global Warning\Climate Change:
it real, and GUYS WE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING!!
Gun Control:
c'mon, you dont really need a smg, do you. What for?
i didlike guns
Healthcare:
nescassary
OWS:
hope they get something done!
Capital Punishment\Death Penalty
if it wouldnt regualerly kill innocents, maybe, but now its a NO

What do you think about the 2012 US Presidential election?
I really hope those republican clowns dont win the election, or were srewed

What do you do for a living?

student

you forgot to ask about age

17

Ketara wrote:



Abortion:

The ladies choice. Forcing a woman to carry a baby to term means you're either slicing her open to get it out, or forcing her to give birth. Which in my mind, is equivalent to GBH. Foetuses are not sentient, they are not even independently alive.

Exactly, plus maybe the women can't afford children, feels she isn't mature enough to raise a child or she just doesn't have any ambitions of having kid.

A Kvlt Ghost wrote:

Mannahnin wrote:(Although the Satanists are usually jerks)

Out of curiosity were they theistic or laveyan satanists? There's a huge difference (for example: actually believing in the existance of satan)

Would make some sense that many of the Satanist Mannahnin encountered were " jerks", one of the primary "tenets" of Laveyan Satanism is that you are your own "God" and should always please yourself first. ( some folks can be rather "jerky" when they stop worrying about pleasing everyone else).
And for the record, Laveyan Satanist don't believe in God or the Devil, nor do they advocate or practice any sort of human or animal sacrifice.

Please don't spam the forum with GIFs. -Mannahnin

What would you describe as your political affiliation? Left

How do you generally vote? Green Party

What sources do you get your political news from? Anywhere except FOX, god knows what those clowns say no a days. Hell John Stewert and Colbart are better then them (and they just take the piss)

... and how often do you do so? Daily

How do you feel about...

Abortion: For it. If the Mother or family can not take care of the baby and giving it up to foster care or adoption is not visable. Then it has to be done
Gay Marriage/Marriage Equality: Whats the differeance between being gay and straight. If you love someone. The couple should be married
Religion: Roman Catholic (All Religion is cool with me, cept atheism..takes as much faith to belive in no faith at all. Only smug tards are atheists anyways)
Global Warning\Climate Change: Its going to happen
Gun Control: Should only be used for hunting (Self defence my butt) There are people who think that its the person who kills the person and not the gun...Thats just BS.
Healthcare: One day we will live in a world when people get sicks and dont get charged for it.
OWS: Is that an American thing?
Capital Punishment\Death Penalty If someone kills a person on purpose they deserve to die. No second chances

What do you think about the 2012 US Presidential election? Obama. He's a hell of a man and a President. If Mcain won in 2008 the Americans would have bin the the debt crisis in about early 2009.

What do you do for a living? Student/Part Time worker

Jollydevil wrote:

dogma wrote:

Jollydevil wrote:
"And yet we frown on religiously motivated terrorism"
"Religiously motived terrorism"
"Terrorism"
Good job, America frowns on terrorism.

I don't see a prohibition against terrorism in the Constitution. Certainly other laws have created such prohibitions, but respecting them in this particular case would mean ignoring the prohibition against laws respecting religions that require terrorist activities in favor the pragmatic concern over terrorism being undesirable.

So basically America should tolerate things like Satanism and terrorism simply because theyre religious?
You baffle me.

Well, there's no problem with Satanism, but dogma is under the mistaken assumption that terrorism is a religious expression. I'm pretty sure many posts on this forum have been reported as "racist" or "offensive" for suggesting the same thing.

You're free to believe whatever you want in the U.S. That's what the free exercise clause means. It doesn't mean you get to act in an otherwise illegal manner.

The action = religious belief (and action = speech with regards to the free speech clause) are two long standing elements of U.S. Constitutional Law that are the most open to abuse, both of which I have a problem with.

biccat wrote:Well, there's no problem with Satanism,

Well, no legal problem, anyway. At least IME it tends to make people jerks. Or maybe they were jerks anyway, and just sought out a religion which reinforced it.

biccat wrote:but dogma is under the mistaken assumption that terrorism is a religious expression.

If I commit a terrorist act out of a religious belief, then clearly that act is an expression of my religious belief. It's not a protected expression, being a criminal act, which is the same point Dogma was making.

Mannahnin wrote:Both. I didn't get to know any of them well, but they largely all came off as self-centered jerks.

I've only met Levayan satanists, but I found them entirely arrogant, entirely fixated on their own assumed virtues.

They reminded me a lot of objectivists, actually, albeit with an even greater persecution complex.

What would you describe as your political affiliation? Objectivism

How do you generally vote? If I could, probably Republican.

What sources do you get your political news from? Fox. come at me bro

... and how often do you do so? Daily

How do you feel about...

Abortion: Should not be government subsidized but legal within reason, only within the first month
Gay Marriage/Marriage Equality: Should be legal.
Religion: Stop pandering to a single religion.
Global Warning\Climate Change: Cut down emissions and stop wasting.
Gun Control: Mental evaluation every year/2 years to own a gun, no violent criminal record. Otherwise, have at it.
Healthcare: Should be corporate-run but government needs, needs, NEEDS, to prevent monopoly in this department.
OWS: I honestly dunno. They have a right to protest but not a right to commit crimes. I'll say I'm indifferent on this one.
Capital Punishment\Death Penalty: Clear out death row and start using it for third-degree murder and child cases. You can interpret what 'clear out death row' means yourself.


What do you think about the 2012 US Presidential election? Herman Cain's the only Republican that makes sense, and even then, I doubt he's really got this one in the bag. The rest of the candidates are a joke and shouldn't even be mentioned.

What do you do for a living? Haven't graduated high school yet, working to become a nurse

biccat wrote:
Well, there's no problem with Satanism, but dogma is under the mistaken assumption that terrorism is a religious expression.

No, I'm under the impression that, when expressed as a consequence of religion, terrorism and religious expression are not mutually exclusive.

Of course, you knew what I was saying, you just didn't like it and so chose to distort it.

biccat wrote:
You're free to believe whatever you want in the U.S. That's what the free exercise clause means.

It doesn't mean you get to act in an otherwise illegal manner.

Then there should be no problem with banning anti-government speech.

Free to believe, but not free to practice and all that.

Since when was it forbidden to speak out against the government?

What would you describe as your political affiliation?
Took a test once to determine, forgot the results. I hate politics too much to remember.

How do you generally vote?
By weighing pros and cons between the runners?

What sources do you get your political news from?
Fox news! On a serious note, from different sources.

... and how often do you do so?
Only when I hear something bad or good enough to warrant research

How do you feel about...

Abortion: All for it.
Gay Marriage/Marriage Equality: Against it. I've always seen it as marriage is a term and status of a hetero couple. A gay couple can be joined in a legal sense, but I don't like it when it's called marriage.
Religion: Don't like it. Causes more problems than anything I know.
Global Warning\Climate Change: Too many conflicting sources, not sure what to believe.
Gun Control: Second amendment all the way. Criminals will always have access to guns, taking them away from the public means we have to rely more on the government for protection. I don't like that.
Healthcare: I don't know enough about the situation to really take a stance. Free health care would be great but it would have unknown effects elsewhere.
OWS: I like that people are finally growing a spine and standing up for something, but the problem is demands are vague and there's no leader.
Capital Punishment\Death Penalty - I'm all for it. Should be done more often. Life in prison just makes you a leech on society until your end comes.

What do you think about the 2012 US Presidential election? All of the candidates are terrible.

What do you do for a living? Currently unemployed. Also too young to have a clear title.

What would you describe as your political affiliation? Socialist

How do you generally vote?Can't yet. Will though

What sources do you get your political news from? Jon Stewart, BBC, unbiased news

... and how often do you do so? Every day.

How do you feel about...

Abortion: Agree with it. If the kids want to get rid of their child go ahead, its their kid their decision.
Gay Marriage/Marriage Equality: GO ahead. Marry each other.
Religion: I am a Lutheran with strong biased views against Evolutionists and Big Bang Theories.
Global Warning\Climate Change:Global Warning exists and it is happening.
Gun Control:I want to carry a gun wherever i go I do not want to be ticketed or arrested because I possess a firearm. I will need in places I live.
Healthcare: Make it Socalist already.
OWS:YOur doing it wrong! You should be trying to beat them at their own game.
Capital Punishment\Death Penalty: No one should recieve the death penalty. Thats not enough punishment give them 60 years of imprisonment and ensure they can't escape and make their lives a living hell.

What do you think about the 2012 US Presidential election? Republicans Lose because all of the canadites are dumb. Democrats have a chance if Hillary Clinton runs for president.

What do you do for a living? Game Design and still in school.

Asherian Command wrote:Abortion: Agree with it. If the kids want to get rid of their child go ahead, its their kid their decision.
...
Capital Punishment\Death Penalty: No one should recieve the death penalty. Thats not enough punishment give them 60 years of imprisonment and ensure they can't escape and make their lives a living hell.

Well, no one except unwanted kids should receive the death penalty, apparently.

dogma wrote:No, I'm under the impression that, when expressed as a consequence of religion, terrorism and religious expression are not mutually exclusive.

Such an impression is, of course, mistaken.

dogma wrote:Then there should be no problem with banning anti-government speech.

Free to believe, but not free to practice and all that.

You do know that there's a difference between free speech and religious freedom, right? They're completely different.