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Corollax wrote:
azazel the cat wrote:But my point is that there is no ambiguity about this. There is no other way to read the rule.

You know what? You're absolutely right. The rules are not ambiguous. As stated, the words written in that codex can only be strictly interpreted in the manner you've described. This is RAW, and I admit it explicitly now, just as I did so implicitly in my previous post.

...but let me now point out that this is not the first time this topic has come up. Not the first time on these forums, and certainly not the first time elsewhere. And there is reason for this. Games Workshop has been writing codices for a long time, and in that period they have established a common mechanism for by which their rules work. We roll ToHit, ToWound, ToSave -- this is all very familiar, and it becomes intuitive for anyone that stays in the hobby for for long.

The rule discussed here breaks this. There exist very few mechanisms for inflicting wounds that ignore the unit's profile. Poison is one mechanism. Sniper rifles are another. And so it makes sense to an experienced reader that Hunters from Hyperspace would just be an improvement on the standard 4+ sniper rifles we all know and love.

So when this pattern of recognition, this context is violated -- in such a way that forces you to roll against a 2+ on a 2d6, no less -- the reader can't help but suspect an oversight. And without an FAQ to clarify, rationality and common sense must play a role in discerning the intent of the designers.

azazel the cat wrote:I know there's a lot of questions up in the air with the Necrons right now, but this one is a 'gimme', because it is clearly written in its entirely and requires no sources other than the Necron codex itself.

And this quote here illustrates precisely what I'm talking about. You're looking at text in a single book without any context of what has come before or the mechanics in which these rules are applied.

In the absence of an FAQ for designers to correct omissions or add clarification, we have to rely upon the rest of the works that Games Workshop have provided us. This is why the FAQs for some codices are relevant to rules disputes for others -- because we rely upon the pattern of our rules for to create a realistic and internally consistent mechanism for resolution of combat events.

The amount of debate on this subject is testament to the fact that there is conflict between the RAW of the Necron codex and the context to which you are supposed to apply it. Given the absence of an official GW position on the matter, it's perfectly reasonable for a TO to rule against the combination until such clarification arrives. This is not some kind of vendetta against the player, or Necrons, or Matt Ward. It is a natural reaction to a violation of an established mechanism until such time as clarification arrives.

Even if we all know green paint needs a nerf.


I think we should disallow Marbro because he's ridiculously over powered for 65 points... heck he doesn't even have to suffer deep strike mishap issues... sure he's only one guy and gets stealth, poison weapons, and a strength 9 AP 2 large blast but before him there was no precedent for that!! Disallowed, next issue, oohh and while we are at it can we remove fast moving blood angles vindicators? I mean come on... AV 13 plus 12" + 24" Strength 10 AP 2 blasts? That's just game breaking right?! (Even if those abysmal staffs can't even hurt those vindis)

Any tournament that refused to allow play as written based off of the supposed error on the part of GW can NOT count on my money. I don't even play necrons but assume that there is a specific reason why Crypteks were allowed to be attached to a deathmark unit (becoming part of that unit). In fact if someone loaded up on 2 5 man deathmark squads, one 10 man, plus Oby, Zan, and an Overlord with res-orb/phaeron upgrade and used Oby and the overlord to keep a 10 man deahmark + cryptek squad alive, with the Nemesor giving them stealth or counter attack or whatever while he flew around on a mobile command barge (flat out homer beacon for Oby and unit) plus overlord to resurrect those poor souls at a cost of 975 points I'd say that's great and stay inside vehicles and slaughter his exposed troops. This is in no way game breaking to be able to nominate a max of 3 squads and be able to use a flamer template to hurt 3/4 of them if spaced properly! Jeez I can't imagine what one does against a Leman Russ squadron that will still wound virtually anything on 2+ (aside from the occasional monstrous creature (Looking at you C'tan!)), shoots across the entire table, and ignores all armor saves except 2+... oh wait, you avoid them, destroy them, or ignore them and focus on troops!

Am I the only one who plays that way?

(FYI, I'd rather have a suicide cryptek for 65 than a deathmark squad plus attached cryptek for 125 that can't even target a transport effectively.)

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2011/12/27 17:45:16


 
   
 
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