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I actually like to take a farseer with fortune(or Eldrad) with Asurmen and a 10 man unit of Dire Avengers with exarch and SS/PW.

I think thier best unit to go against is a squad of thunder hammer/storm shield terminators that the dire avengers have charged.

The Terminators have two attacks taken away because of being charged, and defend, and the Dire avengers with Asurmen can actually threaten them in close combat.

It's probably the best unit the Eldar can throw at marines like that.

dnanoodle wrote:It's pricey but for 177 you get 10 with an Exarch w/ power weapon and shimmer shield, defend and bladestorm. It's a nice all-purpose unit. They shoot hordes very well and with fortune I've had them tarpit scary CC units and win over the course of several turns. If they don't win they often last long enough for me to bring real CC to do the job.

QFT

I run two units like that, doom and guide.

Roadkill Zombie wrote:I actually like to take a farseer with fortune(or Eldrad) with Asurmen and a 10 man unit of Dire Avengers with exarch and SS/PW.

I think thier best unit to go against is a squad of thunder hammer/storm shield terminators that the dire avengers have charged.

The Terminators have two attacks taken away because of being charged, and defend, and the Dire avengers with Asurmen can actually threaten them in close combat.

It's probably the best unit the Eldar can throw at marines like that.

Ok, so lets see. That unit comes out at, assuming a normal fortune seer, 177+85+230= 492 pts and thats without a transport and the cheapest farseer possible. That is not really a good way to spend your points. That said, its still one of the more viable ways to include a craptastic FL.

Whatever Tedurer. It gets the job done. It holds his expensive unit in place so the Eldar can get down to the business of killing everything else in his army. And it also has a very good chance of killing off his big expensive squad of guys too. What's so wrong with that?

Whatever? The problem is that the tarpit costs more than any unit it is trying to tarpit (besides Paladins). So in your example above the opponent will have more pts to "get down to business of killing everything else" than you will have, thats the problem.

By just playing Eldar your opponent already has more points to get down to the business of killing our stuff than we have. We're way overcosted to begin with. Think about it from a different perspective than your points vs his points because we are always gonna lose that argument no matter which way you slice it. Think about it from a perspective of putting the right unit where it is needed at the time. And when you need a tarpit unit, in the Eldar army there isn't a better one than Eldrad/Farseer + Dire Avengers w/Exarch w/ SS+ PW + Asurmen.

Wraithlords are pretty good tarpits...and they don't cost 500 points either.

Roadkill Zombie wrote: By just playing Eldar your opponent already has more points to get down to the business of killing our stuff than we have. We're way overcosted to begin with. Think about it from a different perspective than your points vs his points because we are always gonna lose that argument no matter which way you slice it. Think about it from a perspective of putting the right unit where it is needed at the time. And when you need a tarpit unit, in the Eldar army there isn't a better one than Eldrad/Farseer + Dire Avengers w/Exarch w/ SS+ PW + Asurmen.

If we are already overcosted, why add to that problem by making something that costs double of what it's worth? If Marines are your problem, why not take Howling Banshees? And if you want something really killy, take Yriel with Kisses Harlequins for about the same points. I'm not saying that's a great idea, but imo better than what you're throwing against Marines. Your effective CC tarpit is still T3 4+ save in shooting, so don't bet on getting a charge on your opponent with your squad unharmed and certainly not more than once. At least Harlequins have their veil to keep them from longer ranged stuff and are probably in cover so would have exactly the same save (4+) as Avengers have.

At the end of the day, Eldar don't need a tarpit. I mean, we're the fastest durable army out there, with just DE faster with their paper vehicles, so what are you doing tarpiting a unit anyway? Tarpit is only effective if you have a dedicated CC unit ready to mop the floor with whatever your tarpit is in combat with, otherwise it only cripples your army and takes away from its main theme. Of course, if you are playing footdar, that's a different story, but with Asurmen and Eldrad there, where is your Avatar? I would dare make a footdar list without an Avatar even less than I would a mech list with no Fire Dragons.

I have found that using my 10 man squad with powerweapon/shimmer shield, defend and bladestorm against paladins is awesome. Fortune them up, and charge paladins. Since the paladins only have 2 attacks without the charge, it takes a long time for them to kill the avengers. Then it gets alot easier to chase down other targets and moving some banshes into flanking position. Hiding Yriel in said unit is also a great way to have him survive combat with them. with defend they do not get many hits on him and they only hit on 4+. They might get a forceweapon through the RoW, but he is 155 points and that is just a risk you have to take.