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Mephiston's fluff hasn't really changed since the Blood Angels minidex, so Ward's not responsible for that.

Alexzandvar wrote:All we get is and old far of a commissar that went missing, a tactical genius with no super-human powers, and a really really tough Ogryen.

We have quite a variety as it goes, 13 characters (including Marbo).

Alexzandvar wrote:How bout you all take your "Unwanted heroes" and give them to the Imperial Guard hmmmm?

Eh, no thank you. I'd much rather have what the Guard currently have in the way of characters. We don't need super special awesome characters, it's what seperates the men from the 'wannabe elites'. I would much rather have a character who has been promoted because of their experience & service time because they've proven to be an effective commander than someone who eats daemons every day for breakfast. I'd prefer plausible to bloody ridiculous.

Sparks_Havelock wrote:

Alexzandvar wrote:All we get is and old far of a commissar that went missing, a tactical genius with no super-human powers, and a really really tough Ogryen.

We have quite a variety as it goes, 13 characters (including Marbo).

Alexzandvar wrote:How bout you all take your "Unwanted heroes" and give them to the Imperial Guard hmmmm?

Eh, no thank you. I'd much rather have what the Guard currently have in the way of characters. We don't need super special awesome characters, it's what seperates the men from the 'wannabe elites'. I would much rather have a character who has been promoted because of their experience & service time because they've proven to be an effective commander than someone who eats daemons every day for breakfast. I'd prefer plausible to bloody ridiculous.

True, part of the reason I wanted to have a Imperial Guard army starting out. Thanks!

It's a combination of more 40k Space Marine codex's, which naturally require special characters to seem relevant. Then on top of this is Ward, who lacks any degree of subtlety in an already unsubtle setting and warps the universe to fit his "writing".

Melissia wrote:

English Assassin wrote:Like it or not, Space Marines are central to the narrative and imagery of Warhammer 40,000

The latter sure, because they sell well (and even then they're easy enough to ignore). But the narrative? Not really, actually, unless your focus is on the Horus Heresy. The way GW has written the narrative, with the exception of Macragge Marines are kinda tangential to the major plotlines after the conclusion of the Horus Heresy.

I find myself inclined to think that you are - deliberately or otherwise - missing the point. The setting's central dynamic has always been the struggle of mankind against Chaos, and the narrative which describes that is one which began with the Horus Heresy, and which which will end only when Abaddon kicks down the doors of the Emperor's throne room and tears out his plugs (or when his head, along with those of Lorgar et al are decorating spikes above the Eternity Gate). That is the ongoing conflict which motivates most of the events of the Warhammer 40,000 universe, and the principal actors in that story are the Space Marines, loyal and traitor.

You are rather disingenuous too in writing the Marines out of Macragge and Armageddon - the victory and tragedy of the Battle of Macragge are undeniable the Ultramarines',and the other Imperial protagonists essentially spear-carriers. The Battle for Armageddon? You mean the game in which the Imperial player desperately tries to keep three hives from the Orks until the Marines arrive, yes? Moreover, I think you'll find there were quite a few Space Marines at Cadia, they were the ones with spikes on their armour shouting "Death to the False Emperor!".

Your other example are rather questionably selective. It's unsurprising the Astartes have little - so far as we know - to do with the Age of Apostasy, its events are only discussed in any depth in the Sisters of Battle codex, and form the Sororitas' 'creation myth'. The same applies to the Macharian crusade, it's a story from the Imperial Guard codex intended to demonstrate that the Guard can occasionally achieve something (and - for whatever reason - to give the setting an obvious Alexander the Great analogue.).

You and I evidently have rather different views of what the Warhammer 40,000 universe is about - I, for instance, don't give a toss about "the daily life of the common folk of the Imperium". That it is established that they are miserable and expendable is quite enough to provide the game with its unique atmosphere, and while doing so makes some sharp satirical points about religious extremism, totalitarian government and the positivist assumptions of old-fashioned sci-fi (incidentally making it more literate than 90% of genre fiction). Now, if you want to play Dark Heresy or whatever, I can see how those minutiae would become more significant, and how the Adeptus Astartes, who really can't do anything beyond fighting and making declamatory speeches, indeed become irrelevant. Unless my understanding of the roleplaying game's popularity is very much an underestimate, however, I remain fairly sure that my view is the one closer to that of the majority, as well as, I suspect, closer to the intent of the setting's creators.