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Pyriel- wrote:My opinion, dont play orks until they get their codex remaked.
I dont see how orks can even be competitive right now.

Maybe I just met a lot of bad ork players but the lists I face can all be seen here on dakka so nothing rookie about those.
I am however still to find one single ork player and/or one single ork list that can touch my marines or grey knights.
I get kicked by other armies sure but never, ever orks.

If anyone here on dakka can give me a good ork build (1850p) that is competitive against SM and GKs so that I can actually ask my opponents to try it out (if they havent already) and in doing so actually have a game that isnt completely over for the orks by turn 3-5 then I would be grateful.

Ya, you must not be facing a good player. Orks can be pretty damn competitive right now, and they probably wont get a codex update for another year or 2.....

Big Mek Wurrzog wrote:3 trukks = not enough punch for most ork players
3 battlewagons = You probably won't need these many starting out or at all (depends on tactics)
3 deffkoptas = good purchase
76 boyz including 5 nobs with PK and Bosspole = required purchase
15 Burna boyz = I'd opt for lootas before Burnas less you want a Burna Wagon considering in combat burnas have very low armor and init despite power weapons while lootas can hide in buildings instead and always do their job great!
1 Warboss - Egh, i have one but i never use him again depends on tactics
1 KFF mek - Highly suggested purchase right after boyz + nobs

3 trukks is not enough punch - 3 trukks backed up by 3 battlewagons is. I have found that you can maintain all withing KFF range and they do quite well.
Burna boyz vs lootas - this one is always tough. Lootas offer great light/medium armor kills but are immobile. Burna boyz are great anti-personel and will absolutely slaughter anything especially when fired from inside a battlewagon. 1 template covers 5 enemy times 15 equals 75 hits equals 38 wounds... Not bad to average 6+ dead termies without a charge.

The warboss is optional but I have found he is nice to plan on as he leaves the option of nobz open - where nobz come in as a troop choice. Otherwise he goes with a 19-man boyz group in a wagon and adds another PK to the combat which is never a bad thing.

Have a look at the ork tacticka as this will tell you which untis are good and bad.Just don't listen to the looted wagon boomgun!

-20 more boyz, making as many as possible 'Ard (stops that pesky bolter fire killing swathes of boys before combat).

-4+Kanz to provide accurate fire support for da boyz, give them cover and shred up basic marines in hand to hand fighting.

-A Big Mek to keep the Kanz moving is often helpful, although use the KFF one.

-A couple of squadrons of buggies will complement your deffkoptaz and can be used to rip up the flank of the enemy, with big shootas hitting infantry and deffkoptas knocking out light to medium armour. They can also distract the heavier elements of enemy fire away from da boyz.

Banzaimash wrote:-20 more boyz, making as many as possible 'Ard (stops that pesky bolter fire killing swathes of boys before combat).

Bolters are AP4, I belive 'Ard dose nothing for them, it would just be wasted points. Better to just get more boyz for the points.

Heavy Bolters are AP4, normal Bolters are AP5.

bombboy1252 wrote:

Pyriel- wrote:My opinion, dont play orks until they get their codex remaked.
I dont see how orks can even be competitive right now.

Maybe I just met a lot of bad ork players but the lists I face can all be seen here on dakka so nothing rookie about those.
I am however still to find one single ork player and/or one single ork list that can touch my marines or grey knights.
I get kicked by other armies sure but never, ever orks.

If anyone here on dakka can give me a good ork build (1850p) that is competitive against SM and GKs so that I can actually ask my opponents to try it out (if they havent already) and in doing so actually have a game that isnt completely over for the orks by turn 3-5 then I would be grateful.

Ya, you must not be facing a good player. Orks can be pretty damn competitive right now, and they probably wont get a codex update for another year or 2.....

Depends on how you define competitive. If being less competitive than DE, BA, IG, SW, GK, Tau (yes, I said Tau, sue me) makes them competitive, then yes, orks are competitive.

I personally think they are only tier 2 now.

To the OP : Given the current codex and metagame, a pure foot slogging list (with supporting units, e.g. lootas, koptas, etc) is the most competitive at the most competitive level of play. BW list and Kan wall are at most tier 2.
There are too many ways around a BW list by most of the current codexes.

HOWEVER, at a semi-competitive level or beginner level of play, I would agree with a previous poster that the best path to go is BW. You will not be bored with having to move so many models, and the learning curve is less steep.
You can even customise the deffrolla, and just get the wagon box for a start, unless you are really particular about aesthetics. And I would think Ghaz and KFF Mek is a must.
Don't field burnas for TAC lists, they just aren't efficient.
Lootas are great.
Koptas are average, but good if you are playing against less competitive players.

I'm sorry what, how are Orks less competitive than Tau? I love Tau but... what?

Isseyfaran wrote:
....Don't field burnas for TAC lists, they just aren't efficient. ...

I'd like to hear your reasoning here.

AresX8 wrote:

Isseyfaran wrote:
....Don't field burnas for TAC lists, they just aren't efficient. ...

I'd like to hear your reasoning here.

Most likely he is right because he said so. We have been through this on every thread he contributed to.

Jidmah wrote:

AresX8 wrote:

Isseyfaran wrote:
....Don't field burnas for TAC lists, they just aren't efficient. ...

I'd like to hear your reasoning here.

Most likely he is right because he said so. We have been through this on every thread he contributed to.

LOL, still trolling?
On the previous threads that I rebutted you, you ended up having nothing to say and resort to "i have nothing else to talk to this guy".And look at your own comment :-

Jidmah wrote:
- Kanz and Battlewagons don't belong in one list

WOW. This really looks like a case of the pot calling the kettle black


And since you stepped in, it must be that you "think" burnas are efficient in TAC lists. So, why not you share with us why you think Burnas are EFFICIENT in TAC list.

Burnas do somewhat fall into the same range as CC and that to some degree makes them redundant in an ork list.
With astute moves or actually tank shocks, an opponent can be forced into what will make for efficient template blobs. Clearing terrain, bunkers etc. is something that burnas will excell at.

The usual weakness of ork lists is anti-tank though so lootas, deffkoptas and the like will be a better choice.
I tend to run burnas as it probably is worth saving 10 or so orks from a disadvantageous assault in every game. I have made a conscious decision to deal with tanks through deathrollas, koptas and the ever useful power klaw. That does leave me susceptible to eldar and probably tau with skimmers of AV 12 - precisely where lootas would do the trick.

I run a trukk wagon army and thus find it iffy that I will be able to get the lootas good fire lanes where they can see the enemy and not be blocked by my vehicle advance. I want the freedom to be aggressive to the extreme with movement and not be bothered by the "clutter" of worrying about maintaining fire angles for lootas or the like.

Sovspot, don't get me started on 'cheesiness'. Now for my opinion: BOYZBOYZBOYZBPYZBOYZBOYZBOYZBOYZ AN' A POWA CLAW TA ROUND IT OUT