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Ascalam wrote:Assuming it's not their own belief that makes their miracles happen

It isn't, as it has been studied by the Inquisition and has been determined to be non-psychic. It has also very specifically been called non-psychic in every single source book and black library story-- in fact, this is surprisingly the only area that GW has had a strong and consistent position on about SIsters. From rogue trader to the fifth edition so-called "codex", to all three supplements in the FFG series, to even Black Library novels, this has been a consistent fact about Sisters.

If an Ork Waaaagh ever reached Holy Terra, only one thing is certain. . .

That would be the most fething insanely huge Waaagh in the universe. Think about it. This Waaagh would have punched through the WHOLE Segmentum Solar. As it approached Terra, every military unit that could possibly reach it would have moved to intercept, the Departmento Munitorum would have scrambled everything it could, dozens or hundreds of Space Marine chapters would have swarmed towards it. Entire planetary populations would have been mobilized to act as conscript infantry, just to slow the Orks down for another few days.

And as a result, every single Ork for a thousand light-years or more moved to join it en masse. It would be a migration unlike anything the galaxy had ever seen. Every victory the Orks won, every planet left burning in the wake of a merciless Ork assault, every titanic naval engagement that left hundreds or thousands of shattered hulks drifting through the void, would have resonated through the Warp like the sound of Gork's own Waaagh-horn, and summoned more and yet more greenskins to swell the ranks of the holiest of holy wars.

Any Waaagh that actually reached Terra would number in the trillions, at least, and they would have left ten times that number of dead behind them on a hundred now-lifeless worlds. Ghazghkull's wars for Armageddeon would be as a candle beside a raging bonfire, in comparison. It would be the last and greatest ragnarok, a battle that would dwarf Horus's Siege of Terra. Countless waves of greenskins raining down from the sky in millions of roks and crude dropships, a thousand-strong horde of Gargants hammering the Eternity Wall with shells and bolts of energy, ranks of the Adeptus Custodes pouring fire into an endless sea of green as it swarmed towards the Palace, Chapter Masters and hulking Warbosses fighting savage duels at the base of the great gate as the sheer pressure of the unrelenting assault slowly forced it open.

Of course, any Waaagh reaching the necessary critical mass anytime soon is vanishingly unlikely. But what a fight it would be!

Billions? Hell, Guard deployments regularly churn out millions for a standard planetary invasion or defense (Abnett and Mitchell's writings notwithstanding). You would likely see trillions of guardsmen involved in the defense of Sol and Holy terra. The Orks would have to outnumber them because they'd also have to deal with Mechanicus (Mars is also in Sol), the Grey Knights (whose home-moon is also in Sol), the Sororitas (who considers Sol their home), and several chapters of Astartes, possibly including entire chapters aiding in the defense exclusively-- the Imperial Fists would not allow Terra to fall while a single one of them still drew breath.

This would be an event that signaled the end of the Imperium and the final domination of Orks (whom are already the dominant race based on population and territory controlled). If Holy Terra fell, nothing could stop them. Not even the dark gods themselves, nor the Necrontyr without destroying all life in the galaxy via exploding suns and even that is no guarantee that it would stop Orks. Tau wouldn't even classify as a footnote. Eldar would go in to hiding and eventualyl be wiped out anyway. The galaxy would become a very green place.

But then the Orks would be bored.

Ascalam wrote:You know, i predicted someone would say that, and i'm not shocked it was you

Good to see ya

Same here

Also, loyal as always

Melissia wrote:Billions? Hell, Guard deployments regularly churn out millions for a standard planetary invasion or defense (Abnett and Mitchell's writings notwithstanding). You would likely see trillions of guardsmen involved in the defense of Sol and Holy terra. The Orks would have to outnumber them because they'd also have to deal with Mechanicus (Mars is also in Sol), the Grey Knights (whose home-moon is also in Sol), the Sororitas (who considers Sol their home), and several chapters of Astartes, possibly including entire chapters aiding in the defense exclusively-- the Imperial Fists would not allow Terra to fall while a single one of them still drew breath.

Yeah, the Orks would most likely end up Gaking there pants as they faced a force that outnumbered them 1,000,000 to 1.

Melissia wrote:

Ascalam wrote:Assuming it's not their own belief that makes their miracles happen

It isn't, as it has been studied by the Inquisition and has been determined to be non-psychic. It has also very specifically been called non-psychic in every single source book and black library story-- in fact, this is surprisingly the only area that GW has had a strong and consistent position on about SIsters. From rogue trader to the fifth edition so-called "codex", to all three supplements in the FFG series, to even Black Library novels, this has been a consistent fact about Sisters.

Daemon gifts are non-psychic too, despite being direct from the warp, but fair enough.

It's been a while since i ran Sisters, or read any fluff about them that didn't involve them being the pre-battle paintjob. It'd be great to read some decent fluff on them again.

Which BL books involve them?

Also this:

Melissia wrote:
Grey Knight homeworld (as it were, a moon really).
Mechanicus homeworld.
Homeworld of half of the Sororitas orders majoris.
What is basically the homeworld of the Imperial Fists.
And of course the Imperium's homeworld itself.

Terran PDF are highly regarded as some of the best PDF in the galaxy.
Also, Adeptus Custodes that number 10.000 warriors.
Saturn Shipyards that have some of the best admirals in the Imeprium.
Mars that is the home of Adeptus Mechanicus with Emperor knows how many Titan Legions there present.

Seriously... Orks woudl get slaughtered. The same if Imperium tried to take over some big Ork empire - no chance.

Ascalam wrote:Which BL books involve them?

Not enough of them, that's for sure. There's only two books specifically about Sisters (Faith and Fire and its prequel Red and Black), while Sisters star infrequently in other books (such as the Ciaphas Cain series where Mitchell constantly refuses to understand Sisters and treats them like garbage, and an extremely tangential appearance of a single character who technicallywasn't actually even there in a single Gaunt's Ghosts novel).


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Brother Coa wrote:Seriously... Orks woudl get slaughtered. The same if Imperium tried to take over some big Ork empire - no chance.

But just think about how insane the battle would be if the two forces were evenly matched.

I've run across them in the Ciaphus Cain novels, but they bend Canon into some pretty absurd shapes (Tau tech is better than Eldar, for example ?? ).

Thanks for the book listings. I'll look them up

I might yet get back into Sisters, especially if they get a proper codex again, and some new minis.

Yeah, that fifth edition... thing... isn't what I would refer to as a codex. It's more of a turd that was shat out on the fans in order to lazily claim that they did indeed update Sisters in fifth edition.

Brother Coa wrote:

Terran PDF are highly regarded as some of the best PDF in the galaxy.
Also, Adeptus Custodes that number 10.000 warriors.
Saturn Shipyards that have some of the best admirals in the Imeprium.
Mars that is the home of Adeptus Mechanicus with Emperor knows how many Titan Legions there present.

Seriously... Orks woudl get slaughtered. The same if Imperium tried to take over some big Ork empire - no chance.

Oh, I'm not arguing that! No Ork Warlord that we know of has anything like the power to assemble a force that would have a snowflake's chance in hell of even REACHING the Sol system. I was working backwards, thinking of what kind of a Waaagh would be required to GET that far.

And the answer, whatever stupidly large numbers you want to attach to it, would be basically every Ork in the Segmentum Solar, or possibly more. Enough Orks that their kroozers in orbit around Terra would blot out the sun and plunge the planet into eternal night, lit only by the fires of their guns. Enough Orks that Ghazghkull, the Prophet of the Waaagh himself, would be no more than a second-tier Warboss, a minor hanger-on in the court of the Warlord of the Aporkalypse, whoever he was. Enough Orks that their Gargants could smash their way through the Titan legions of Mars and Holy Terra together, that their battlewagons and battle-fortresses could grind the tanks of the largest concentration of Imperial Guard ever seen beneath their tracks.

In short, if a Waaagh ever reached Terra, it would be a mighty enough Waaagh that even Terra might fall before it. . . but any Waaagh that tried it would be annihilated before entering the system, short of the direct intervention of Gork himself.

EDIT: I am so tempted to write a fluff piece about this now.

I this that this Guardsmen pretty well sums up this conflict.

I still use my old witchhunters codex. I refuse to use the WD one, on the rare occasions my sisters get off the dusty shelf.

An evenly matched slugfest (point for point) between the Sol system and equivilent points of orks would be fething AWESOME! That's the kind of epic battle i would love to see told.

Also with a concentration of orks that big Gork and Mork would probably be able to manifest, especially if they were taking on another uber warp presence.

THat kind of concentration of Orks would make Khorne piss his nonexistent pants.

Melissia wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:Seriously... Orks woudl get slaughtered. The same if Imperium tried to take over some big Ork empire - no chance.

But just think about how insane the battle would be if the two forces were evenly matched.

We already know that... http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Octarius_War#.TxJjE6WmjIU. But any battle that size would be epic, Armaggedon scale epic.

Melissia wrote:THat kind of concentration of Orks would make Khorne piss his nonexistent pants.

Indeed, however it should be noted the amount of things that could go wrong when you have that amount of Orks, because literally there would never have been a moment in time were you had that many Orks in one place.

God knows warp holes would rip open, the Gods would be shaking in there boots. No to mention it would be impossible to field weirdboyz because the Physic field would be way way to strong form them to harness without imploding.

Not to mention the size of the Warboss you would need!

BeRzErKeR wrote:
Oh, I'm not arguing that! No Ork Warlord that we know of has anything like the power to assemble a force that would have a snowflake's chance in hell of even REACHING the Sol system. I was working backwards, thinking of what kind of a Waaagh would be required to GET that far.

A REALLY big one.

Brother Coa wrote:

BeRzErKeR wrote:
Oh, I'm not arguing that! No Ork Warlord that we know of has anything like the power to assemble a force that would have a snowflake's chance in hell of even REACHING the Sol system. I was working backwards, thinking of what kind of a Waaagh would be required to GET that far.

A REALLY big one.

Could imagine all the Dakka that would happen if this event actually went down.

It would be GLORIOUS.

Still not enuff dakka, but gods it would be close

Honestly, Gharkul Blackfang was the only one to ever get a Waaaaagh! going that could have possibly threatened the Sol system.

If there was ever another Blackfang, Holy Terra would be a great risk. Blackfang required a few Primarchs and the Emperor in order to be defeated. Currently, the IoM has none of those, plus smaller SM legions (now Chapters).

However, it took 1000 Custodes to defeat over 100,000 of Gharkul's best in under an hour. Orks would not survive long if they manage to make planetfall. The Custodes are just too powerful. They make Space Marines look like 98 lb morons in comparison.

Right, I need to write this up.

Any suggestions for a name for the Warlord of the Aporkalypse?

McNinja wrote:Honestly, Gharkul Blackfang was the only one to ever get a Waaaaagh! going that could have possibly threatened the Sol system.

If there was ever another Blackfang, Holy Terra would be a great risk. Blackfang required a few Primarchs and the Emperor in order to be defeated. Currently, the IoM has none of those, plus smaller SM legions (now Chapters).

However, it took 1000 Custodes to defeat over 100,000 of Gharkul's best in under an hour. Orks would not survive long if they manage to make planetfall. The Custodes are just too powerful. They make Space Marines look like 98 lb morons in comparison.

Gharkul died, that's why. Orks don't do well at keeping the fight going once da boss is dead.

Wun Big Mutha

Ascalam wrote:Still not enuff dakka, but gods it would be close

I can totally imagine a giant Warboss Mek siting on top of a Massive Ork ship covered entirely in Machine guns firing widely at the oncoming Imperial Fleet.

Or an attempt at the "Unyveses largest shoota'" which is just a MASSIVE gun with engines strapped to it.

Dude, there could be an Ork weapon that hits every single particle in the universe with every single other particle in the universe and it STILL WOULDN'T BE ENOUGH DAKKA.

yup, because it didn't nuke the universe next door and the Warp as well

It's an unattainable goal

Ascalam wrote:yup, because it didn't nuke the universe next door and the Warp as well

It's an unattainable goal

Grimdark in a nutshell.

*Turns on his arc welder and lights his Orky Cigar* Loremaster time yet again boyz!

So I think for the most part ork players and marine players agree that right now, orks really aren't too concerned with any empire (including nids and chaos) existing. Orks don't desire to erradicate enemies, they want endless warfare infact many attributed references can be found in the relationship of Ghazghull Tharaka and Yarrick. Ghazy could have probably taken the planet all sneaky like but released Yarrick from his cell after capturing him and a group of dark angels trying to protect a ammuntion production planet for the imperium. Ghazzy could have caught the imperium byheavy surprise since his plan was 30 years in the making but he decided he didn't want to take the world without a proper fight. To this day the orks still fight there and the orkish race couldn't be happier in that area.'

As far as bringing the fight to Terra it's very possible a ork waaagh could hit Terra but it's incredibly unlikely the Imperium wouldn't have time to prepare for it and redirect it to another planet for example. It is possible for a no early notice but this would probably be due to warp travel out of no where appearing in the proper area and declaring a Waaagh with no idea it's the very heart of the Imperium. My main issue with this concept is it's ... out of sequence with ork philsophy everyone pro IOM says it would be countered instantly... well duh thats like playing an RTS and not building anyone or weakening areas first. A crafty orkish warlord who wanted to fight the biggest and best of the Imperium and was dead set on earth would be taking a very high task up indeed but he'd have the means to start down the road already that is for sure.

Not to mention I think in a very old codex they mentioned the first Xeno contact was Orkish Contact when IOM first warped through space. So Terra has probably already been attacked if I am not mistaken but this was a much different time and not really relevant to the context. The main hurdles an orkish warlord would need to have is methods of fighting the incredibly zealous forces of the Imperium at every angle imaginable. I have no doubt that an attack this close to the Imperium if in sufficent force would like Armageddon pull SO MANY RESOURCES from countless sectors, worlds and orders that it would be a truly epic space battle.

Air battle would be just as thick as the Imperial Guard and Space marines would do their best to make sure the orks would be as slow as possible. And Ground combat they would need to face off against threats not in any codex ... the Custodians and the Various patroling titans of Terra. I think were the Imperium to ever truly fall it will be by orkish hands that Terra falls while in a swirling melee of other xenos overwhelming the very heart of man. (Think DOW orks fighting chaos fighting marines, fighting IG fight SOB fighting, fighting Grey knights, fighting nids!) This sort of thing is not something I foresee the orks doing anytime soon again mostly attributed to not erradicating life or empires but simply to bully and eventually kill it once bored. You also need someone who could call an ork waaagh so massive it would dwarf Armageddon's Waaagh for a instant war

The methods I see orks using is over time, the Imperium dissolves, tech loss, trade routes weakened due to orkish raiders, communication with other forces thins, and lastly the eventual eradication of military protection in other quadrants. The Imperium is hinted as being frail but it needs alot more infrustructure damage before a long burning Waaagh could inflict damage on it without reinforcements becoming a increasingly worse situation each day for da boyz.

In short to Stomp Earff we needz ta kill, chop un stomp everyfing around dat sector first; an' have lots of boyz to make the job propa! We don't want more of dem dead ard marine ladz showin up uninvited!

Just so you know, I have really been enjoying reading this thread!
I think the Orks have the resources to pull it off, but as it says in both the codex and the rulebook, they lack the overall organization. An attempt to invade Terra would probably take centuries of several concentrated Waaaghs to even weaken the defenses or take nearby fortress planets, but it could be done.
Imagine the Warboss required just to make one of these smaller Waaghs happen. He would make Ghazzy look like an ordinary Nob.

Actually, I now want a Warboss model made specific for Apocalypse.