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Fearspect wrote:Vehicles have a special extra rule that states pivoting does not count as movement.

So turning does count as movement for non-vehicles?
I'm sure you can cite a rule saying that. Maybe something like:

BRB page 11 "Turning and Facing wrote:As you move the models in a unit, they can turn to
face in any direction, without affecting the distance
they are able to cover.

Oh, no - that's not what that says. Darn.

Movement counts as movement.

And turning is not movement - as it does not affect the distance the model is able to cover.

Reread your rules quote from page 11 very carefully. You do not get to cover more distance thanks to your pivoting.

Fearspect wrote:Reread your rules quote from page 11 very carefully. You do not get to cover more distance thanks to your pivoting.

So vehicles can't either?

It's one or the other - either both work, or neither do.

Vehicles have an extra rule in the Vehicles Movement section that specifically states that, for them, pivoting does not count as movement.

Fearspect wrote:Vehicles have an extra rule in the Vehicles Movement section that specifically states that, for them, pivoting does not count as movement.

And yet you cannot find, anywhere, that says pivoting counts as movement for non-vehicles.
Which means it doesn't.
So you fall back on page 11 where it says that models can turn without affecting the distance they cover.
Models includes vehicles.


The pivot note for vehicles is to clarify that unlike many other game systems (including some previous GW ones) you don't have to "pay" to turn.

Did you not notice the comma in the sentence you quoted? You can pivot freely, just not in a method that alters the total displacement. Without that comma, you would be correct. Save your flippant responses in the future.

Fearspect wrote:Did you not notice the comma in the sentence you quoted? You can pivot freely, just not in a method that alters the total displacement. Without that comma, you would be correct. Save your flippant responses in the future.

Note that displacement and movement are not the same thing. Can you show where displacement is mentioned?

You still haven't agreed that any limitation based on page 11 makes vehicles unable to do the pivot trick.

I was trying to explain it in a different way that would maybe make sense to you, since you are unwilling to simply believe a move of 14" > 12". However, since we are of an agreement that you cannot 'pivot trick' a bike, I think this thread is done.

Feel free to search for any of the many pivot trick threads to understand why vehicles are the exception; that is not relevant to this discussion.

Fearspect wrote:I was trying to explain it in a different way that would maybe make sense to you, since you are unwilling to simply believe a move of 14" > 12". However, since we are of an agreement that you cannot 'pivot trick' a bike, I think this thread is done.

Feel free to search for any of the many pivot trick threads to understand why vehicles are the exception; that is not relevant to this discussion.

It's not a move of 14" - it's a move of 12".
Just like vehicles. It's 100% relevant to this discussion. Here - since this discussion is actually OT for the thread, I'll start a new one.

FYI: from the other thread:

*Deploy sideways.
*Move full distance sideways.
*free pivot in the shooting phase to face assault target via shooting.
*Assault target with the added distance of the pivot now being in place for your assault.

Move 12", Pivot 3-4" based upon base size, Assault 6"

Works with any non-round non vehicle models. As long as the 'length' portion of the base is with the direction of the facing when shooting, you can do it all day.

nkelsch is bang on. It is incredibly cheesy but fully legal to do so.

The rule on page 11 is saying that models can pivot freely during movement without that pivot having any affect on the distance that they will cover. So pivot, measure, move is perfectly legal.

-cgmckenzie

cgmckenzie wrote:nkelsch is bang on. It is incredibly cheesy but fully legal to do so.

The rule on page 11 is saying that models can pivot freely during movement without that pivot having any affect on the distance that they will cover. So pivot, measure, move is perfectly legal.

-cgmckenzie

The problem is when people forget that you pivot from the center of the model. This applies to bikes, vehicles, anything. You can't just pivot from anywhere you damn well please. Considering this, if you really did line your Rhino up again the table edge at the start, you wouldn't be able to pivot, because doing so would cause your Rhino to go off the table edge, because you pivot from the CENTER of the Rhino. Therefore, this tactic is completely illegal. And may well end up with you being unable to do anything but drive across that table edge, seeing as how you can't pivot to face any other direction. Honestly, I think you deserve it if you try something like this.

Show me where it says they have to move using the front arc as the direction and that would help.
(or in the case of bikes, why that matters at all)

Moving sideways is ok.

I know this is a game, in an imaginary world, but if you seriously try to convince a TO that you can drive your tank sideways, you're going to get turned down pretty fast.

kirsanth wrote:Show me where it says they have to move using the front arc as the direction and that would help.
(or in the case of bikes, why that matters at all)

Moving sideways is ok.

Yep, move wazdakka sideways, enter shooting phase, pivot to aim guns at target and fire, then assault in assault phase.

UberhAxTHC wrote:The problem is when people forget that you pivot from the center of the model. This applies to bikes, vehicles, anything.

Of course you can cite the page that rule is on, right?

I know you guys are having a field day arguing over the pivot trick but I'd like to steer back on topic for a moment.
I built a kustom biker boss, not a Wazdakka (But I'll certainly be "counting as" from time to time) and he is just over the length of a truck. Check him out with a regular biker boy for comparison.


I built this guy as more of a style choice, not really worrying about tournaments, as I don't attend them. But I DO expect people to let me use him locally, even if it's not strictly a friendly game.
As you can see, he's incredibly long, so long in fact, that he would get a nice boot from the pivot trick (not that I had though of that while building him.) However, couldn't you argue that this also means he's more susceptible to difficult and dangerous terrain moves, impassible terrain, and bigger assaults because of his huge base (40 mm wide and roughly 160mm long).
Would you guys let me run him if we played? If not, why not, and does the fact that the model was obviously built for style over RAW, would that impact your decision to deny me a game?
Also, more pics in my gallery if you are interested.

Passes 'Rule of Cool' to me.

And the second you pivot with him and exploit the base size, it becomes 'not as cool'

Custom conversions live and die by Rule of Cool. This is why a painted awesome biker and a banana put on the table as a proxy may have the same in-game effects, but one is awesome and the other is a banana.

"but one is awesome and the other is a banana."

Hahahahahaha! Oh wow, that's my new life's motto.