Magic The Gathering

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**Rented Tritium**

That's why using legacy as your base format for casual is such a good idea. You can just ignore rotation and play with your friends. Keep a tournament legal deck updated as a side project.

**remilia_scarlet**

Chongara wrote:
remilia_scarlet wrote:
rockerbikie wrote:I gave up Magic after most of my Vampire got removed from Tournament play in Standard.

there's so many in innistrad that are better, beside, in zendikar, there were only 2 good ones, nighthawk and gatekeeper.

I think the point is many people dislike the notion of set rotation entirely. You buy cards, you get used to playing with them you want to keep doing it until YOU decide not to play them anymore. This is fine if you've got a good casual group to play with. However if you rely on FNM or other organized play (or the people you're playing just refuse to play anything but standard), you're up the creek without a paddle if it bothers you.

that's why I prefer legacy, bigger cardpool, but 8/10 cards are practically unuseable.

**rockerbikie**

remilia_scarlet wrote:
rockerbikie wrote:I gave up Magic after most of my Vampire got removed from Tournament play in Standard.

there's so many in innistrad that are better, beside, in zendikar, there were only 2 good ones, nighthawk and gatekeeper.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Chongara wrote:
fluffstalker wrote:
That being said I have to say it seems a little intimidating. Well, so was 40k when I started, but I got into it fairly smoothly. MtG actual gameplay, on the other hand, seems very competitive and the players seem to be leaning towards that neckbeard stereotype, at least those that I have seen. I hope that I'm incorrect on this, does anyone have any input regarding the MtG gaming culture overall in the west?

If you play at a game store, yes. Ask around and see if any of the more tolerable folks play with a private group or circle of friends you can get invited to. Finding a good set of folks to play Magic with is like finding a good set of folks to do any other nerdy hobby with.

Though as for the gameplay, if nothing else the rules are much clearer and well defined than 40k. Once you get a handle on them, you'll rarely run into a situation where two cards are interacting in a way that isn't pretty much clear, and when you do just look online there will be an official clarification already. That alone reduces a lot of the friction you can run into in something like 40k, where the rules are just bits and pieces of disjointed systems held together with duct tape and faith in the emperor.

the golden rule of magic: the cards are always right.

Funnily enough, I used to win alot in my area with my old Vampire-fire deck. If it is better I might spend $100 or so getting my cards back. The only problem I've had was Blue-black decks.

**Lord Demon**

remilia_scarlet wrote:
the golden rule of magic: the cards are always right.

Remila if so then explain the interaction between humility and mishra's factory

If you stick with the latest sets the rules are clear once you bring in the older cards... At a flgs yu usally see people practising for tourny's but usually they pack fun decks aswell. And what i find the most fun is multiplayer. It tends to be more casual too. For an eternal casual format i would suggest edh. Too bad i have other appointments this weekend otherwise i would be playing a pre-release too

**rockerbikie**

Rented Tritium wrote:That's why using legacy as your base format for casual is such a good idea. You can just ignore rotation and play with your friends. Keep a tournament legal deck updated as a side project.

Good Games the place which runs it generally only keeps to standard. Most of my friends are metalheads who are/were into Warhammer and Nerds who likes Startrek and Sci-Fi. I generally don't have many friends from Good Game FNM.

**remilia_scarlet**

Rented Tritium wrote:That's why using legacy as your base format for casual is such a good idea. You can just ignore rotation and play with your friends. Keep a tournament legal deck updated as a side project.

legacy is expensive to play competitively, since many decks require ABU dual lands, and many staples, like force of will seem to be getting pricier. my suggestion is ignore the reprint policy, and reprint the ABU dual lands so the format can be enjoyed by casual players, which make up a large percent of non-standard players.

**Rented Tritium**

Lord Demon wrote:
remilia_scarlet wrote:
the golden rule of magic: the cards are always right.

Remila if so then explain the interaction between humility and mishra's factory

If you stick with the latest sets the rules are clear once you bring in the older cards... At a flgs yu usally see people practising for tourny's but usually they pack fun decks aswell. And what i find the most fun is multiplayer. It tends to be more casual too. For an eternal casual format i would suggest edh. Too bad i have other appointments this weekend otherwise i would be playing a pre-release too

It's not when you bring in "older cards", it's when you bring in "opalescence" and "humility" that you have issues.

Older cards are oracled to current wordings. There's nothing inherently less workable about older cards unless they are opalescence and humility.

**Lord Demon**

Yes but if you use the remilia's golden rule the card is always right then you dont use oracles. That is why i brought an extreme example to the table. For the record i agree that if you look up the oracle then there usually is no problem

**remilia_scarlet**

Lord Demon wrote:
Remila if so then explain the interaction between humility and mishra's factory

0/10 troll

if you don't understand timestamps, I feel bad for you son, I got 99 problems, but comprehending priorities ain't one.

again, the cards are always right.

**Chongara**

Rented Tritium wrote:That's why using legacy as your base format for casual is such a good idea. You can just ignore rotation and play with your friends. Keep a tournament legal deck updated as a side project.

..aaand. That's fine for people who have a group of friends to play with. If you're relying on game stores or the like, Legacy is going to be anything but casual-friendly. You're also going to be getting hit left and right with really old, really bizarre cards way out of line with modern magic design philosophy. This can often be overwhelming, confusing ("Wait, your blue deck is dealing me damage directly?") or just plain frustrating.

**remilia_scarlet**

Chongara wrote:
Rented Tritium wrote:That's why using legacy as your base format for casual is such a good idea. You can just ignore rotation and play with your friends. Keep a tournament legal deck updated as a side project.

..aaand. That's fine for people who have a group of friends to play with. If you're relying on game stores or the like, Legacy is going to be anything but casual-friendly. You're also going to be getting hit left and right with really old, really bizarre cards way out of line with modern magic design philosophy. This can often be overwhelming, confusing ("Wait, your blue deck is dealing me damage directly?") or just plain frustrating.

I play ad nauseum tendrils in casual for this reason.

**Suks**

My FLGS has booster drafting tourneys where you buy into the tourney for the cost of 3 boosters, then use the boosters to build a deck, would this be a good starting place for a newbie to start? I feel like I wouldn't be at a very big disadvantage and it would be a cheapish fun way to gradually start collecting cards. Or am I off the mark completely?

**Lord Demon**

remilia_scarlet wrote:
0/10 troll

if you don't understand timestamps, I feel bad for you son, I got 99 problems, but comprehending priorities ain't one.

again, the cards are always right.

Well good that you understand them. A player that encounters it for the first time wont know what to make of it. Besides if the card is always right then a Judge would never have to make a rules call at an event. But they often have to make one

@suks, It is certainly a good way i only suggest you read some drafting pointers beforehand.

**remilia_scarlet**

Lord Demon wrote: a Judge would never have to make a rules call at an event. But they often have to make one

aha, that's why I said the cards are always right, not the players. you'd be suprised how many players try to use tormod's crypt after I've called it with pithing needle.

**Lord Demon**

I played a combo player once who started to play mox-mox-lotus really fast. I basicaly had to yell stop! Then i pointed at my chalice of the void set on 0. I guess he was really happy that he had everything on hand to combo out.

I concede the card is always right. But old wordings on the card can sometimes be read in several ways. Take a card like timevault for example if you read the card you get the idea you can untap whenever you want. Oracle says if you would start your turn with it tapped.

**remilia_scarlet**

Lord Demon wrote:I played a combo player once who started to play mox-mox-lotus really fast. I basicaly had to yell stop! Then i pointed at my chalice of the void set on 0. I guess he was really happy that he had everything on hand to combo out.

I concede the card is always right. But old wordings on the card can sometimes be read in several ways. Take a card like timevault for example if you read the card you get the idea you can untap whenever you want. Oracle says if you would start your turn with it tapped.

legacy isn't a forgiving format for those who have problems with wording, just look at rock hydra.

**Rented Tritium**

The problem with people playing competitive against casual exists in literally every constructed format. It's not unique to legacy. At some point, you have to just be sure to play with cool people who will bring weaker stuff.

Or honestly the better option is to allow your "casual" playgroup to slowly evolve into a competitive playgroup.

**Suks**

Where is the best place to read drafting tips or strategies? Especially something noob friendly. Any ideas?

**remilia_scarlet**

Suks wrote:Where is the best place to read drafting tips or strategies? Especially something noob friendly. Any ideas?

mtgfanatic.com works for me, they have a drafting simulator.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Rented Tritium wrote:The problem with people playing competitive against casual exists in literally every constructed format. It's not unique to legacy. At some point, you have to just be sure to play with cool people who will bring weaker stuff.

Or honestly the better option is to allow your "casual" playgroup to slowly evolve into a competitive playgroup.

it's worse in legacy, since most of the stuff in these newer sets just won't work as well in the format.

**Chongara**

Suks wrote:Where is the best place to read drafting tips or strategies? Especially something noob friendly. Any ideas?

Experience will help more than anything. I always find limited guides to feel a bit opaque. On a very general level though:

-Avoid Lifegain, Mill (Target player puts the top X cards of their library on the graveyard) and Auras that boost your own creatures (Unless *REALLY* Good)

-Emphasize Creatures, Particularly those with Evasion ("Flying", "Unblockable", "Intimidate".)

-Get as much removal as you can.

-Equipment is usually better than it looks on paper, so long as it provides a power bonus.

**remilia_scarlet**

Chongara wrote:
Suks wrote:Where is the best place to read drafting tips or strategies? Especially something noob friendly. Any ideas?

Experience will help more than anything. I always find limited guides to feel a bit opaque. On a very general level though:

-Avoid Lifegain, Mill (Target player puts the top X cards of their library on the graveyard) and Auras that boost your own creatures (Unless *REALLY* Good)

-Emphasize Creatures, Particularly those with Evasion ("Flying", "Unblockable", "Intimidate".)

-Get as much removal as you can.

-Equipment is usually better than it looks on paper, so long as it provides a power bonus.

also keep in mind that the scrub players will be focusing on rares and power cards. last set, all the people who lost the first rounds were the ones trying to build the W/G beatdown decks and load them with all the werewolves.

**Suks**

What sets are generally used in a draft?

**Rented Tritium**

Suks wrote:What sets are generally used in a draft?

The most common draft you will see is a combinations of the sets in a single block, almost always the most recent block, or all 3 packs from the most recent core set.

**Howard A Treesong**

I'm in Dark Sphere today, it's packed!

**Lord Demon**

How did you do Howard and what is your first impression of dark ascension?

**Howard A Treesong**

We had three Innistrad and three Dark Ascension to draft from, I went with White-Red, mainly because there were a decent number of creatures with these. I won two, lost three and drew one.

Curses are more prominent with this set, and flashback is regularly used making a few of the cards very powerful...

I got my first Mythic rare too, Let's you put thirteen 2/2 zombies down, so that's a bit mad.

**Lord Demon**

Got my box yesterday. Pulled 11 mythics among them the new sorin.Goes straight into my new edh deck