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Johnny-Crass wrote:Maybe if the government bought the weapon for you but honestly it is just another tax on the poor and thus I would never support it
It's not really a tax on the poor because I see it as a way for SD to eliminate some of their law enforcement budget by having armed citizens (though if you look crime rates in SD are way lower than most of the country, anyways). Sort of like what happened here in CA; when Vallejo started to lay off the majority of its department, they actually advised citizens to arm themselves as there was going to be much less police in a city with already high rates of crime.
The gift of a gun from the government isn't a bad idea, either. There are millions of weapons we've got stockpiled from M1 Garands to M16's that we've already paid for that could be distributed without additional cost.
Ever been there? It's low because it's got a lower population I would guess. I lived in Wyoming for 4 years. I've heard they are alot alike.
Monster Rain wrote:I'm a pretty intense supporter of the right to keep and bear arms, but I'm not crazy about this.
Telling people that they have to buy something is the opposite of freedom, isn't it?
Smells an awful like a mandate to me! Where's biccat.....
"But i'm more than just a little curious, how you're planning to go about making your amends, to the dead?" -The Noose-APC
"Little angel go away
Come again some other day
The devil has my ear today
I'll never hear a word you say" Weak and Powerless - APC
Ensis Ferrae wrote:I raised a question earlier on in the thread (well really it was a statement), but IF a law like this went through, then how does any Law Enforcement agency legitimately enforce such a law?
Ask the Swiss.... I believe they have a similar law.
Of all the races of the universe the Squats have the longest memories and the shortest tempers. They are uncouth, unpredictably violent, and frequently drunk. Overall, I'm glad they're on our side!
Office of Naval Intelligence Research discovers 3 out of 4 sailors make up 75% of U.S. Navy.
"Madness is like gravity... All you need is a little push."
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
2012/02/04 21:54:56
Subject: Re:South Dakota, where you MUST own a gun
Melissia wrote:Can you make your own gun instead of buying one?
You would have to apply for a federal firearms license type 7 which is a $150 fee, plus the cost of building your firearm. On the upside you could then act as a transfer dealer and recoup your costs through transfer fees.
Avatar 720 wrote: You see, to Auston, everyone is a Death Star; there's only one way you can take it and that's through a small gap at the back.
Powder Burns wrote:what they need to make is a fullsize leatherman, like 14" long folded, with a bone saw, notches for bowstring, signaling flare, electrical hand crank generator, bolt cutters..
Melissia wrote:Can you make your own gun instead of buying one?
You would have to apply for a federal firearms license type 7 which is a $150 fee, plus the cost of building your firearm. On the upside you could then act as a transfer dealer and recoup your costs through transfer fees.
Does it have to be a firearm?
What about making your own laser? I can build my own electroshock laser for cheaper than I can buy a gun.
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
Kennesaw Georgia, there is a similiar law, passed in 1982.
(a) In order to provide for the emergency management of the city, and further in order to provide for and protect the safety, security and general welfare of the city and its inhabitants, every head of household residing in the city limits is required to maintain a firearm, together with ammunition therefore.
(b) Exempt from the effect of this section are those heads of households who suffer a physical or mental disability which would prohibit them from using such a firearm. Further exempt from the effect of this section are those heads of households who are paupers or who conscientiously oppose maintaining firearms as a result of beliefs or religious doctrine, or persons convicted of a felony.
It sounds like the Dakota bill is more of a stunt than actually trying to pass a law, or they would have modelled it after this existing one.
Now, I do believe that responsible law abiding people should arm themselves for protection from threat and harm, but a blanket requirement, eh.
State full of citizens armed with military grade rifles? YES. Since the 2nd Ammendment was put in place for several reasons, not the least of which was deterring undemocratic government, and of course to ensure the other freedoms were protected.
Early American settlers viewed the right to arms and/or the right to bear arms and/or state militias as important for one or more of these purposes:
deterring undemocratic government;
repelling invasion;
suppressing insurrection;
facilitating a natural right of self-defense;
participating in law enforcement;
enabling the people to organize a militia system.
For those who don't know, electrolasers are basically taser which use a laser to create a plasma channel that funnels the electricity, thus delivering a shock without needing to launch contact points at the target.
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
2012/02/04 22:42:12
Subject: Re:South Dakota, where you MUST own a gun
You would have to apply for a federal firearms license type 7 which is a $150 fee, plus the cost of building your firearm.
That is only in the event that you wish you engage in sales. So long as YOU build it for YOUR usage and you have no intentions of selling it, no FFL is required for manufacture unless you want to start building things like machine guns.
Technically, I can go to a machine shop with an AR15 lower forging, rent machine time, come back with a complete, usable AR lower, and then slap the rest of the parts in and go. I don't even -need- a serial number on it...though this is a recommended practice by the ATF, for what should be obvious reasons. If I however turn around a week later and sell it off, well, some people might be annoyed with me. Very mean people, who have no sense of humor.
Back on topic...I say pass a law like this in all 50 states. Lets even go two further: Start surplusing all those M16s we bought from vietnam onward that the government gives to departments for (literally) around 20 dollars a pop to the peasantry, and start up a yearly training program. Switzerland has a good thing going, I say we follow their lead on this one. Again.
2012/02/04 22:46:18
Subject: Re:South Dakota, where you MUST own a gun
....Besides, one more term with a democrat president in combination with a democratic majority in the house and senate, and we will have that too. In spades.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/02/04 22:53:23
a firearm suitable to their temperament, physical capacity, and personal preference sufficient to provide for their ordinary self-defense.
I think a Tippman C-3 could fit the above description. Sounds real enough and getting an unprotected hit at close range can scare off most people..... freeze the paintballs and you can do some real damage at the ranges found in most homes....
Of all the races of the universe the Squats have the longest memories and the shortest tempers. They are uncouth, unpredictably violent, and frequently drunk. Overall, I'm glad they're on our side!
Office of Naval Intelligence Research discovers 3 out of 4 sailors make up 75% of U.S. Navy.
"Madness is like gravity... All you need is a little push."
You would have to apply for a federal firearms license type 7 which is a $150 fee, plus the cost of building your firearm.
That is only in the event that you wish you engage in sales. So long as YOU build it for YOUR usage and you have no intentions of selling it, no FFL is required for manufacture unless you want to start building things like machine guns.
Technically, I can go to a machine shop with an AR15 lower forging, rent machine time, come back with a complete, usable AR lower, and then slap the rest of the parts in and go. I don't even -need- a serial number on it...though this is a recommended practice by the ATF, for what should be obvious reasons. If I however turn around a week later and sell it off, well, some people might be annoyed with me. Very mean people, who have no sense of humor.
Back on topic...I say pass a law like this in all 50 states. Lets even go two further: Start surplusing all those M16s we bought from vietnam onward that the government gives to departments for (literally) around 20 dollars a pop to the peasantry, and start up a yearly training program. Switzerland has a good thing going, I say we follow their lead on this one. Again.
You're totally right, I guess I just knee jerked into "manufacture=type 7 or the ninjas will come and shoot your dog and your wife after they finish raiding the wrong house next door"
Melissia wrote:
AustonT wrote:
Melissia wrote:Can you make your own gun instead of buying one?
You would have to apply for a federal firearms license type 7 which is a $150 fee, plus the cost of building your firearm. On the upside you could then act as a transfer dealer and recoup your costs through transfer fees.
Does it have to be a firearm?
What about making your own laser? I can build my own electroshock laser for cheaper than I can buy a gun.
Eerm...answer below next quote.
helgrenze wrote:Hmm.. going back to the proposed law....
a firearm suitable to their temperament, physical capacity, and personal preference sufficient to provide for their ordinary self-defense.
I think a Tippman C-3 could fit the above description. Sounds real enough and getting an unprotected hit at close range can scare off most people..... freeze the paintballs and you can do some real damage at the ranges found in most homes....
The law says "firearm" and the ATF has made a living, and ruined peoples lives, defining a firearm. Neither electroshock lasers or paitballs fit that definition. IIRC a muzzle loader doesn't either, figure that one out.
2012/02/04 23:42:51
Subject: Re:South Dakota, where you MUST own a gun
Well, when Rep. Hal Wick (R-Sioux Falls), one of the sponsors of the bill, was asked about the true intent of H.B. 1237 he fessed up to its facetious nature but also underscored the larger political point the sponsors were making.
“Do I or the other cosponsors believe that the State of South Dakota can require citizens to buy firearms? Of course not. But at the same time, we do not believe the federal government can order every citizen to buy health insurance,” he said.
...I love the idea behind this...but dammit he's totally wrong on this. The State of South Dakota can require citizens to buy firearms, or health insurance, or anything else. The Federal Government can't.
On the merits, yeah, it's a stupid idea. But it's not being proposed for its merits.
alarmingrick wrote:Smells an awful like a mandate to me! Where's biccat.....
And as a mandate it's a bad law. But it is not unconstitutional, like Obamacare is.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/02/05 00:10:25
text removed by Moderation team.
2012/02/05 00:16:52
Subject: Re:South Dakota, where you MUST own a gun
KingCracker wrote:But....it has an explosive charge, that fire out a projectile bullet...........I mean its...firearm?
It's an issue of semantics, very important semantics, But semantics nontheless. There's a particular part of the US code that explains and defines "firearms" so the legal definition is established. Muzzleloaders that are not easily convertible to fire regular rimfire or centerfire cartridges fall under a different section as "antique firearms" and are pretty much unregulated. I'm fuzzy on weather antique firearms replicas designed before 1898 to fire rimfire or centerfire blackpowder cartridges still qualify as antique firearms or as "firearms."
Avatar 720 wrote: You see, to Auston, everyone is a Death Star; there's only one way you can take it and that's through a small gap at the back.
Powder Burns wrote:what they need to make is a fullsize leatherman, like 14" long folded, with a bone saw, notches for bowstring, signaling flare, electrical hand crank generator, bolt cutters..
2012/02/05 01:19:57
Subject: Re:South Dakota, where you MUST own a gun
AustonT wrote:The law says "firearm" and the ATF has made a living, and ruined peoples lives, defining a firearm. Neither electroshock lasers or paitballs fit that definition. IIRC a muzzle loader doesn't either, figure that one out.
alarmingrick wrote:Smells an awful like a mandate to me! Where's biccat.....
And as a mandate it's a bad law. But it is not unconstitutional, like Obamacare is.
Oh yes! It's just freakin' horrid! I mean, hell, I just took my 21 yr old son to the AM/PM clinic this evening.
Thanks to that stupid freakin' horrid law, it cost him $30 instead of over a hundred. And his damn meds
only cost $5. Geez, I feel so screwed by that damn law.....
/sarcasam
"But i'm more than just a little curious, how you're planning to go about making your amends, to the dead?" -The Noose-APC
"Little angel go away
Come again some other day
The devil has my ear today
I'll never hear a word you say" Weak and Powerless - APC
I realize it's a sarcastic bill, but I can't help but imagine how they would enforce it if it passed. They would send the census takers out with knives instead of clipboards. If you save yourself with a gun, you're following the law, and don't have to worry. If you don't have a gun, you're dead and can't break the law because your a corpse. Easy!
moom241 wrote:I realize it's a sarcastic bill, but I can't help but imagine how they would enforce it if it passed. They would send the census takers out with knives instead of clipboards. If you save yourself with a gun, you're following the law, and don't have to worry. If you don't have a gun, you're dead and can't break the law because your a corpse. Easy!
That'd be bringing a knife to a gun fight though.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/02/05 07:45:47
"But i'm more than just a little curious, how you're planning to go about making your amends, to the dead?" -The Noose-APC
"Little angel go away
Come again some other day
The devil has my ear today
I'll never hear a word you say" Weak and Powerless - APC
The right to bear arms is important. Gun crime is still high in a country that bars guns to people who don't have an excuse to carry it. All that it means that innocent people can't get guns and criminals can.
biccat wrote:Posters here do know what "A Modest Proposal" was, right?
A well known piece of political satire?
Very good guess dogma! Honestly, I'm kind of surprised you got it on the first try.
The reason I ask is because it was literally the first line of the article, which should have alerted people that this was a satirical law.
alarmingrick wrote:
biccat wrote:
alarmingrick wrote:Smells an awful like a mandate to me! Where's biccat.....
And as a mandate it's a bad law. But it is not unconstitutional, like Obamacare is.
Oh yes! It's just freakin' horrid! I mean, hell, I just took my 21 yr old son to the AM/PM clinic this evening. Thanks to that stupid freakin' horrid law, it cost him $30 instead of over a hundred. And his damn meds only cost $5. Geez, I feel so screwed by that damn law.....
/sarcasam
Wow, your 21 year old son is still living with you? Maybe you should talk to him about becoming more independent.
However, whether Obamacare is or is not a bad law doesn't affect its constitutionality. I think the "Stolen Valor Act" is a decent law, but it's still unconstitutional.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/02/05 13:48:26
Well.... I have always held that guns are for people who lack the skills to .... interact with others on a more personal level.....
In this house, you REALLY don't want to bring a gun to the knife fight.
Of all the races of the universe the Squats have the longest memories and the shortest tempers. They are uncouth, unpredictably violent, and frequently drunk. Overall, I'm glad they're on our side!
Office of Naval Intelligence Research discovers 3 out of 4 sailors make up 75% of U.S. Navy.
"Madness is like gravity... All you need is a little push."
You forgot flaming ninja in there somewhere. Sorry Helgrenze, but if I were to rob your house, your crazy wicked street knife fighting skills would fall pretty quickly to me just fething shooting you. In the really real world, you cant super slash bullets into dust. Now Im reminded of that part in Robin Hood men in tights, where that dude slices and dices that arrow with his daggers
biccat wrote:Posters here do know what "A Modest Proposal" was, right?
A well known piece of political satire?
Very good guess dogma! Honestly, I'm kind of surprised you got it on the first try.
The reason I ask is because it was literally the first line of the article, which should have alerted people that this was a satirical law.
alarmingrick wrote:
biccat wrote:
alarmingrick wrote:Smells an awful like a mandate to me! Where's biccat.....
And as a mandate it's a bad law. But it is not unconstitutional, like Obamacare is.
Oh yes! It's just freakin' horrid! I mean, hell, I just took my 21 yr old son to the AM/PM clinic this evening.
Thanks to that stupid freakin' horrid law, it cost him $30 instead of over a hundred. And his damn meds
only cost $5. Geez, I feel so screwed by that damn law.....
/sarcasam
Wow, your 21 year old son is still living with you? Maybe you should talk to him about becoming more independent.
However, whether Obamacare is or is not a bad law doesn't affect its constitutionality. I think the "Stolen Valor Act" is a decent law, but it's still unconstitutional.
Ah, I see. Just because he's on my insurance, "He lives with me"? Hey tool, ever stop to thing I took him because he was in too much
pain to drive himself. And that maybe he doesn't live with me? I wouldn't be happy if you didn't make assumptions. Any other gak you'd like to say
about my son, genius?
Edit: spelling
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/02/05 19:42:36
"But i'm more than just a little curious, how you're planning to go about making your amends, to the dead?" -The Noose-APC
"Little angel go away
Come again some other day
The devil has my ear today
I'll never hear a word you say" Weak and Powerless - APC
