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col. krazy kenny wrote:Any one here ever play or heard of Twlight 2000? Read that games background.

Sure have; got into it when it first came out. Character development was a little slow, but man, you could sure die quick lol!
They eventually released a Merc: 2000 supplement that was more modern Cold War era inclined with 3rd world mission involvement and all.

That idea would have more appeal to me scrolled up to the 80/90s, sort of a soviets last hurrah! More modern Anti missile tech preventing anything other that small tactical nukes would keep the real history buffs from moaning too much.

A later start would also cover more recent conflicts as well as cold war gone hit scenarios. So don't want to duke it out with Centurions/Challengers vs Sovs in the forest of Eastrn Europe, why not try the Iran/Iraq war. I dibs Saddam Hussein!

In reality if I was running BF I'd sort the models out. Finecast is one thing but BFs models aren't that far off it sometimes. I don't think I have built a single tank that didn't require 10 minutes of filing!

I'd make a Pacific Book so we can actually have a game that represents the pacific...

It would include any needed rule changes.

notprop wrote:That idea would have more appeal to me scrolled up to the 80/90s, sort of a soviets last hurrah! More modern Anti missile tech preventing anything other that small tactical nukes would keep the real history buffs from moaning too much.

A later start would also cover more recent conflicts as well as cold war gone hit scenarios. So don't want to duke it out with Centurions/Challengers vs Sovs in the forest of Eastrn Europe, why not try the Iran/Iraq war. I dibs Saddam Hussein!

In reality if I was running BF I'd sort the models out. Finecast is one thing but BFs models aren't that far off it sometimes. I don't think I have built a single tank that didn't require 10 minutes of filing!

I think the FOW ruleset is very good, if they could come up with some AT Missiles or SAM rules it would make 1980's Warfare a real possibility. I think the lists would be cut down, but imagine 1/144 Apaches and Hinds Tearing up the board, the Soviets having much better AAA then NATO and NATO having excellent artillery and Air support. Chieftains with 2metre range on their guns, Challengers and Abrams, M60's and various other vehicles like Bradley's, Warriors, 432's, Marder's, Leopards, AMX, LeClercs.

If PSC did 15mm BMP's and T-72's it would make massed soviet forces possible on the cheap.

Pacific is long overdue, think i read on here that 2012 will be the year it's developed? I want to so the Battle for Berlin given 'firestorm-type treatment; with a map of the city and an apocolyptic fight over the Reichstag etc. Someone must have already done that. Peter pig does Volkssturm minis too so would be easy to assemble.

eorltheyoung wrote:Pacific is long overdue, think i read on here that 2012 will be the year it's developed? I want to so the Battle for Berlin given 'firestorm-type treatment; with a map of the city and an apocolyptic fight over the Reichstag etc. Someone must have already done that. Peter pig does Volkssturm minis too so would be easy to assemble.

I don't know if Battlefront has ever confirmed they're working on the Pacific. 2012 might be wishlisting.

mwnciboo wrote:

notprop wrote:That idea would have more appeal to me scrolled up to the 80/90s, sort of a soviets last hurrah! More modern Anti missile tech preventing anything other that small tactical nukes would keep the real history buffs from moaning too much.

A later start would also cover more recent conflicts as well as cold war gone hit scenarios. So don't want to duke it out with Centurions/Challengers vs Sovs in the forest of Eastrn Europe, why not try the Iran/Iraq war. I dibs Saddam Hussein!

In reality if I was running BF I'd sort the models out. Finecast is one thing but BFs models aren't that far off it sometimes. I don't think I have built a single tank that didn't require 10 minutes of filing!

I think the FOW ruleset is very good, if they could come up with some AT Missiles or SAM rules it would make 1980's Warfare a real possibility. I think the lists would be cut down, but imagine 1/144 Apaches and Hinds Tearing up the board, the Soviets having much better AAA then NATO and NATO having excellent artillery and Air support. Chieftains with 2metre range on their guns, Challengers and Abrams, M60's and various other vehicles like Bradley's, Warriors, 432's, Marder's, Leopards, AMX, LeClercs.

If PSC did 15mm BMP's and T-72's it would make massed soviet forces possible on the cheap.

Most of those are out there if you look for them.

That sounds awsome my friend, now if you made it all 20mm/ 1/72scale I would be right there with ya. I'll never understand you 15mm players =oÞ~~~

I know, I know Force on Force is good but getting more players is a problem. FOW seems to be gathering pace so if we can hijack that.

I also like 15mm because I seem to get more for my money, and I certainly get more vehicles on the battlefield at 15mm. I do like 20mm but I want to field 20+ tanks it would cost a fortune in 20mm (well unless PSC does them in a 3 for £12 like the other 1/72).

mwnciboo wrote:I know, I know Force on Force is good but getting more players is a problem. FOW seems to be gathering pace so if we can hijack that.

I also like 15mm because I seem to get more for my money, and I certainly get more vehicles on the battlefield at 15mm. I do like 20mm but I want to field 20+ tanks it would cost a fortune in 20mm (well unless PSC does them in a 3 for £12 like the other 1/72).

Well FoF can be played with 15mm I don't know why anyone would do that but to each their own....

If battlefront moves on from WWII into other area's I might give them a look, but as it is WWII just doesn't do it for me. Although KGN does look kind of interesting from what I have been reading, but thats another topic for another time.

All of the above is tongue in cheek. I know sarcasm doesn't translate well.

Hopefully PSC can do more moderan stuff once they get their WWII range moved along a little more. More Variety is always a good thing for consumers. I would love to get 3 Leopard 2A5's for 12£ ( around $18 Canadian) I would be all over that. Same with Challeys and Chieftions, M1A1's, M60A3's, hell T-72 and T-80's would be nice also. Hopefully if they do go that way they also make some of the more obscure vehicles that we need but can be a pain in the butt to find.

If PSC starts doing cold war/moderns, I want Hinds... lots and lots of Hinds...

The problem with trying to wargame more modern periods is the immense ranges that tank-to-tank combat takes place at. In fact, that's one of the defining features of modern armoured warfare - along with the incredible accuracy that MBTs like the M1 and Leopard 2 can achieve.

I would hope that PSC fill out their WWII range before getting distracted by more modern stuff. Even with their current ambitious release schedule, they've only covered a fraction of the vehicles that modellers and wargamers would like to see them do:

British: Crusader, Matilda, Grant, Sexton, Humber, Staghound
US: M10, M36, Hellcat, Pershing, M8
German: SdKfz 222, SdKfz 232, Puma, Panzer II, Tiger II, Jagdpanther, Jagdpanzer IV, Hetzer, various Marders, Wespe, Hummel (difficult to know where to stop!)
Soviet: BA-64, IS-2, SU-76, SU-122, ISU-122, SU-85 (again, there are a lot of quite important Soviet vehicles)

Then there are the softskins and smaller vehicles that would be great to have in plastic.

Tailgunner wrote:The problem with trying to wargame more modern periods is the immense ranges that tank-to-tank combat takes place at. In fact, that's one of the defining features of modern armoured warfare - along with the incredible accuracy that MBTs like the M1 and Leopard 2 can achieve.

True and the British Chieftain was king of the long range tank battlefield, it had to have round and Charge loaded seperately and it is an utterly devastating weapon but not as flexible as the modern 120mm "All up rounds" rifled, smoothbore or what have you.

Still it was out in the Iraqi Desert in 91 that they proved MBT engagement ranges could be insane. That said the area around the Fulda Gap is defensive general's dream.



try driving your tanks across plains like this when your enemy has the ridge-lines. 6mm would be better for scale but that size is bloody nuts. I'm sticking with 15mm for fun.

Of course the game could go for abstraction to deal with size issues.

6mm actually sounds fun.

mwnciboo wrote:

Tailgunner wrote:The problem with trying to wargame more modern periods is the immense ranges that tank-to-tank combat takes place at. In fact, that's one of the defining features of modern armoured warfare - along with the incredible accuracy that MBTs like the M1 and Leopard 2 can achieve.

True and the British Chieftain was king of the long range tank battlefield, it had to have round and Charge loaded seperately and it is an utterly devastating weapon but not as flexible as the modern 120mm "All up rounds" rifled, smoothbore or what have you.

Still it was out in the Iraqi Desert in 91 that they proved MBT engagement ranges could be insane. That said the area around the Fulda Gap is defensive general's dream.



try driving your tanks across plains like this when your enemy has the ridge-lines. 6mm would be better for scale but that size is bloody nuts. I'm sticking with 15mm for fun.

Ahh the good old IGB. That was pretty much the thinking of NATO at the time, take the high ground hull down blast away with 105mm shells and arty. Unless the CCCP decided to do a preemptive nuclear strike then it's MAD (kiss your *** goodbye).

6mm would be a blast playing a cold war gone hot scenario. Hell just about any large battle would work well with 6mm. WWII would be a blast, Tomorrow's war would be a blast. Epic was a blast.

Sorry for going OT. I seem to be the king of that for some reason.