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Made in se
Stubborn Dark Angels Veteran Sergeant



Lost in the warp while searching for a new codex

KingDeath wrote:For the price of a Vindicator, which needs at least two rounds until it can shoot ( always assuming that it wasn't stunned/ imobilised/ destroyed/ or suffers from a weapon destroyed result ) you can buy a Predator which starts poping your opponents transport from turn one. Seriously, Vindicators look scarry but they aren't.
After at the very least one or two rounds of doing nothing you can finaly shoot.

Well, a str10 blast is nice, until it scatters and fails to scratch even the paint of your opponent's transports ( oh look, a str5 hit...). Since most people have meched up by now even a direct hit won't be that scary ( a bit less than a 1/3 chance to actualy destroy/ wreck a transport, depending on the armourvalue ).


Im sorry, but what boards are you playing on? A vindicator has a 30" treath range, with one turn of moving at cursing speed and then popping smoke I find it very difficult not to be in range of what you want to be shooting at.

A BS 4 scatter weapon will, assuming it can scatter 2", hit almost as often as a plain BS4 shot. With the added bonus of not necessarily being useless when it misses.

But all this is besides the point really. I do not wish to use the Vidicators mainly for AT I have 16 MLs, 2TLLCs, 2 LCs, 1 AC and 3MMs with a 36" treath range for that. Adding another 4 LCs and 2 ACs will not give me any huge boosts. Adding 2 str 10 Ap2 pie plates that can help deal with things that will go trough my termies (Paladins, TWC ect) as well as actyally have a decent chance at taking out a LR ect


I cannot believe in a God who wants to be praised all the time.
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Made in nl
Blood Angel Neophyte Undergoing Surgeries




Scatter was never my friend, I'd choose the Pred
   
Made in us
Kinebrach-Knobbling Xeno Interrogator



Sterling, VA

The Vind never seems to hit what you want. It is scary but not consistent enough.

You hit where you want to a little over 1/3 of the time('hit' on the scatter plus scatter rolls of 4 or less). The same tank if crewed by IG would only be ever so slightly less accurate.

A pred really makes use of that BS4.


 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




The large plate can deviate about 3” and still hit the thing you are aiming for, which is a 7 or less on the scatter after BS. It works out that about 2/3 shots hit, or deviate narrowly enough to still hit. If you do the math you'll see that a large blast hits about as often as a single shot if the same BS, and a small blast hits at about BS-1.
   
Made in us
Plastictrees






Salem, MA

When you only get one shot (at the most) before the vehicle is dead or disabled, 2/3 isn't very good.

A predator can plink away all game long.

"The complete or partial destruction of the enemy must be regarded as the sole object of all engagements.... Direct annihilation of the enemy's forces must always be the dominant consideration." Karl von Clausewitz 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






I have been playing vindis in my Deathwing with mixed results. Some games they are amazing and some they do nothing. I use out of reserve quite often.

I may build some Preds and try them out after years of not playing them.

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Made in au
Irradiated Baal Scavanger




blood angels vindicators
(windicators) cause they are damn fast with an awesome gun
   
Made in fr
Tzeentch Veteran Marine with Psychic Potential





France

Flavius Infernus wrote:When you only get one shot (at the most) before the vehicle is dead or disabled, 2/3 isn't very good.

A predator can plink away all game long.


And that's why :

Grey Templar wrote:Vindicators are best run in 3s, at which point they go from good to stupidly awsome.


Vindi all the way here. The main gun is usefull whatever you're facing. Though with CSM, choice is a bit hard between them or Oblis.
Predators seems to always have the wrong gun at the wrong time for me.

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




For a long time I thought Vindicators were a fluke unit. They would work spectacularly once every 10 times and everyone remembered that one time as opposed to the 9 times it did nothing. I used one in my BA list and it does draw a lot of attention. I get some use out of it and I thought that was because it's a fast vehicle in that list.

Recently I took it out for another predator and the list doesn't perform as well anymore. For one thing land raiders don't have as much fear of mthe list without the threat of the vindicator. Also I found that the vindicator just hampered certain lists I played against. Finally it can be a such a psychological weapon. I'm not sure I could ever quantify the benefit it gives me just forcing my opponent to do different things while the vindicator is in reserve, waiting to come out.

It's not a game changers by itself, but it is a vey useful tool not to be overlooked. It can do what a predator can't and a well rounded army list would be wise to give one a serious look.
   
Made in au
Utilizing Careful Highlighting





Australia

I have used both

This thread has everthing already but here is my 2 cents

Vindicator is great SOMETIMES. You open a transport full of plague marines and land the pie plate on target, or you drop a shell on a bunch of BA sang guard..

HOWEVER vindicators get disabled quickly, which can be good if you can make people shoot their front armour, but the most frustrating thing for me is you will hesitate to shoot when your opponent is close to your army. So the stuff that you really want to shoot, with lots of CC nastiness like terminators/paladins etc will likely be a high risk shot from turn 2 onwards

You also only get 1 shot - hive tyrant bearing down on you, maybe you cause a wound, if he has guard then sure maybe you get them a wound too, but think wraithlord, greater daemon etc

Which is why I say go the pred

With vindi you can reliably move 6 and fire, with the pred you are more incentivised to stay still and fire all weapons. If you move then you still get your TLLC main turret, and moving has a number of advantages. From experience deploy your pred in the centre of your table edge if he has outflankers, it will likely stay still so your pred will die if it is on a flank to auto hits on its rear armour if infantry reach it

Two similar options worth thinking about are riflemen dreads (two twinlinked autocannons) and dread with TLLC and missile launcher arms - similar roles, can use terrain better, less vulnerable to assault, can move and shoot all weapons, better side armour but weaker front armour

All said and done three lascannons on AV13 front armour is pretty formidable, even if people whinge about the cost of the turret, I really like that build and if you acknowledge sometimes it will be worth moving and sacrificing 2 of your 3 lascannon shots, broadly speaking it will be highly useful in every game you play for a variety of valuable roles until the point someone takes it out, which will likely soak a lot of important firepower from the rest of your army

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