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Winterkit wrote:I read the book, haven't seen the flick. It's good to see more films with strong female protagonists (ie: Nothing like Twilight).
I'm a huge Battle Royale fan, so that tarnished my enjoyment of the Hunger Games. They use very, very similar concepts, but go in different directions. While Battle Royale deals with the serious emotional trauma inherent in the violence the characters are being forced to endure, Hunger Games focuses more on the media circus. They both have a strong theme of resistance against government oppression.
Spoiler:
I'd say that this changes as the series continues. By the end of the third book you have what basically amounts to a broken shell of a character, exhibiting severe post traumatic stress.
sebster wrote:
Orlanth wrote:Its a known fact that Aussies are genetically disposed towards crime, we intentionally set them up that way.
But only awesome crimes like bushranging and, if I understand the song correctly, sheep stealing and suicide.
I'd say that this changes as the series continues. By the end of the third book you have what basically amounts to a broken shell of a character, exhibiting severe post traumatic stress.
This. By the ending of Mockingjay its abundantly apparent. I actually applaud the author for being so willing to show this.
Spoiler:
Young adult fiction tends not to leave characters scared for life.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/03/31 01:04:19
I'd say that this changes as the series continues. By the end of the third book you have what basically amounts to a broken shell of a character, exhibiting severe post traumatic stress.
This. By the ending of Mockingjay its abundantly apparent. I actually applaud the author for being so willing to show this.
Spoiler:
Young adult fiction tends not to leave characters scared for life.
Spoiler:
Or kill off favourite characters in a brutal and shockingly sudden manner.
sebster wrote:
Orlanth wrote:Its a known fact that Aussies are genetically disposed towards crime, we intentionally set them up that way.
But only awesome crimes like bushranging and, if I understand the song correctly, sheep stealing and suicide.
At least it gives old ideas to new people. That's more than I can
say of anything I've done lately.
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"...he could never understand the sense of a contest in which the two adversaries agreed upon the rules." Gabriel Garcia Marquez, One Hundred Years of Solitude
Amaya wrote:1984 had new ideas to an extent when it came out.
I think the issue is that with every passing generation it becomes exponentially more difficult to come up with new ideas.
One could argue that new ideas require a massive cultural shift. Technically speaking the western world hasn't experienced one since the rise of the nation state (EDIT: Arguably the Enlightenment was the last big culture shift).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/03/31 05:42:24
That could also be true. Either way, the lack of originality in THG and other modern works (literature, film, television) is somewhat saddening even though production values have shot through the roof and there are certainly talent writers and actors out there.
For example, JK Rowling is an excellent writer and she's certainly more readable than a lot of middle of the 20th century era fantasy even though the latter works were more original...or at least less derivative.
Honestly I think its hard to judge the long term value of a piece in its own time. A lot of famous books we know today were actually largely unknown within their own time. Charles Dickens for example was considered a quack and a shotty artist. The works of Hemingway didn't become fully appreciated until after his death.
Harry Potter I think is going to stick, if for no other reason than raw popularity (hopefully our children will never have to learn of the horror that is the Twilight Saga... please... for the children). There will probably be books 100 years from now being studied that none of us ever read!
I have no delusions about the Hunger Games though. I doubt it'll remain a well known work 100 years from now. Heck I'm not even sure if they can make Mockingjay into a movie! As a book I appreciate its value, and the craftsmenship behind it, but honestly. Mockingjay is depressing. EXTREMELY depressing. EDIT: No I'm, serious. I cannot begin to explain just how depressing that book is. They'd have to change the ending to appeal to mainstream audiences and honestly, if that happens the impact of the book is lost.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2012/03/31 06:06:49
Twilight won't last as it has absolutely no merit whatsoever. Harry Potter will probably fade somewhat, but its popularity was/is so great that there is really no basis for comparison in older fantasy works.
A good example is Lovecraft who went from being virtually unknown in his time, to having a massive effect on America horror both in literature and film. Not to mention he gave us Cthulhu, but I'm sure most people don't even know where Cthulhu (or knock offs) come from.
I'll bet most people know Cthulhu was invented by a man named Lovecraft, but outside of nerd circles I'll bet most people know little of his work or its influence.
Similar I think to Hemingway, whose influence on American literature is pretty much unknown outside of those interested in the subject. Sure people know he is a famous author but one of the chief contributors to the birth of the modern novel is no more remembered for how important he is than Geoffrey Chaucer.
On the other hand most people don't really need to know these things XD
EDIT: Hell I don't need to know them...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/03/31 06:30:16
idk, I could agree with that. Catching Fire is kind of meh from the half-way point until you hit the ending. Mockingjay, which an achievement for the author imo, is as I've said earlier, extremely depressing. The ending is not particularly endearing.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/04/03 00:49:35
LordofHats wrote:idk, I could agree with that. Catching Fire is kind of meh from the half-way point until you hit the ending. Mockingjay, which an achievement for the author imo, is as I've said earlier, extremely depressing. The ending is not particularly endearing.
I reject and refute your statement.
The last book at least was a great culmination, and really after everything she had been through it's not like a cheery ending would have been believable.
sebster wrote:
Orlanth wrote:Its a known fact that Aussies are genetically disposed towards crime, we intentionally set them up that way.
But only awesome crimes like bushranging and, if I understand the song correctly, sheep stealing and suicide.
Hazardous Harry wrote:ok at least was a great culmination, and really after everything she had been through it's not like a cheery ending would have been believable.
Spoiler:
I'm not saying the ending has to be happy. if anything, Mockingjay's ending is very accurate for a revolutionary situation. But she could have at least won. Katniss pretty much loses everything over the course of Mockingjay and her reward is permanent psychological trauma and social exile. Its a great ending, I personally like it a lot, but its also very depressing.
DoctorZombie wrote: The movie version was released last week, and has been hyped for a while. Now, I'm in this book/film's "target audiance" (I guess?), but I don't get why its so popular. It's not as bad as Twilight, but is full of continiuity and plot holes.
If you're not aquanted with it, Hungry Games takes place in a far future US ruled over by a totalitarian regime, which forces teenagers to fight to the death in an arena once a year or something. Why would you have a bunch of teenagers with guerilla warfare skills if you're supposed to be an iron fisted dictatorship? Wouldn't you want the population to be impotent and powerless to your will?
I suggest you read the book, watch the movie or at least read the Wikipedia synopsis. It explains it okay.
Hazardous Harry wrote:ok at least was a great culmination, and really after everything she had been through it's not like a cheery ending would have been believable.
Spoiler:
I'm not saying the ending has to be happy. if anything, Mockingjay's ending is very accurate for a revolutionary situation. But she could have at least won. Katniss pretty much loses everything over the course of Mockingjay and her reward is permanent psychological trauma and social exile. Its a great ending, I personally like it a lot, but its also very depressing.
Bitter sweet endings are always confusing
Spoiler:
That's the point, her side did 'win'. Katniss herself however, lost pretty bad.
A fairytale ending would have made it just that, a fairytale.
sebster wrote:
Orlanth wrote:Its a known fact that Aussies are genetically disposed towards crime, we intentionally set them up that way.
But only awesome crimes like bushranging and, if I understand the song correctly, sheep stealing and suicide.
LordofHats wrote:idk, I could agree with that. Catching Fire is kind of meh from the half-way point until you hit the ending. Mockingjay, which an achievement for the author imo, is as I've said earlier, extremely depressing. The ending is not particularly endearing.
I reject and refute your statement.
The last book at least was a great culmination, and really after everything she had been through it's not like a cheery ending would have been believable.
The first book was pretty good. It stared a strong, intelligent young woman who was willing to fight to save her loved ones.
The second book started to go downhill. It stared a strong young woman who was willing to fight to save her loved ones, but she was suddenly an idiot for no reason. It started off strong, and the ending was pretty good. But, the middle half of the book was all just filler. You kept waiting for something to happen, but she was too dumb to actually take part in any of the exciting things happening around her.
Spoiler:
I mean, she had people come up to her and explicitly say "There's a revolution forming around you." Yet, she seemed totally oblivious to it.
The third book was rather disappointing. It stared a dumb, weak, sappy young girl. She sits around and does nothing for almost the entire book. Occasionally, something exciting will happen for a brief moment, but then she gets all sad again and nothing happens for another 3 or 4 chapters.
Spoiler:
And, her final mission was idiotic. Were we suppose to actually cheer her on as she disobeyed orders, rushed into a warzone with no preparation, got everyone around her killed, and accomplished absolutely nothing?
Amaya wrote:Everyone should read Lovecraft's works!
And I seriously doubt anyone outside of nerd circles is familiar with his name.
I actually discovered him in a pretty cool way, because It was playing the videogame "Eternal Darkness" on my Nintendo gamecube as a young lad.
If you played that game, you know why its cool.
It was fething fantastic, prompted a google search and then a reading of nearly all HP's works.
Its true what you say though, because I, and nobody I was mates with in the RM had a clue who he was before I got my hands on ED.
We are arming Syrian rebels who support ISIS, who is fighting Iran, who is fighting Iraq who we also support against ISIS, while fighting Kurds who we support while they are fighting Syrian rebels.
Amaya wrote:Everyone should read Lovecraft's works!
And I seriously doubt anyone outside of nerd circles is familiar with his name.
I actually discovered him in a pretty cool way, because It was playing the videogame "Eternal Darkness" on my Nintendo gamecube as a young lad.
If you played that game, you know why its cool.
It was fething fantastic, prompted a google search and then a reading of nearly all HP's works.
Its true what you say though, because I, and nobody I was mates with in the RM had a clue who he was before I got my hands on ED.
Holy crap. My buddy and I played almost that entire game one night and it was amazing! Scared the poop out of us to in a fun way. Man....they don't make them like that anymore.
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Grakmar wrote:The third book was rather disappointing. It stared a dumb, weak, sappy young girl. She sits around and does nothing for almost the entire book. Occasionally, something exciting will happen for a brief moment, but then she gets all sad again and nothing happens for another 3 or 4 chapters.
Spoiler:
And, her final mission was idiotic. Were we suppose to actually cheer her on as she disobeyed orders, rushed into a warzone with no preparation, got everyone around her killed, and accomplished absolutely nothing?
QFT
In many ways I like Mockingjay but in many other ways I really dislike the story. Granted her sitting around doing nothing plays into what I think is the theme of the story (that Katniss has been reduced from a person to a symbol, and about how the rebellion is only marginally better than the current order) but its just a story that builds some disappointment. I also felt the ending was really tacked on and that the resolution of her arc with Peeta felt very weak.
EDIT: The Hunger Games was a wonderful, if dark, example of YA fiction. But Mockingjay is dealing with vastly more mature themes that have been shoved into a genre where they're out of place, both in the sense that its not what is typical of YA fiction and it evolves into a different kind of story than the first book was.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/04/03 18:28:46
They'd have to change the ending to appeal to mainstream audiences and honestly, if that happens the impact of the book is lost.
