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IG should shred nids. Maybe you're running into target prioritization problems.

I'm assuming that you're running a Mech list. If so, there isn't much there that shouldn't punk Nids in awful ways every game. All of the things that make Mech IG nasty (Hydras, Manticores, Vendettas, Melta Vets, etc.) are absolute murder on Nids. Lots and lots of high S shooting.

Post both lists so we can see what we're talking about. Mech IG and infantry-heavy IG are completely different armies.

Ailaros wrote:Zoanthropes get their save against the battlecannon, but not the lascannon, and if either of them stick a wound, say hello to instant death.

Zoanthropes have a 3+ invulnerable save - so it'd get that against either gun. But yes, if either gets through it'll ID them.

Guns and more guns. Max out on large blast templates for swarms. Autocannons for big bugs. And for good measure. Nade launchers for extra measure.

I don't see why Melta vets are being held in such high regard, at most you take a MC down from 6 wounds (as most Tyranids have) to 3, which will be moments before it chows them down with ease. If you're lucky you might keep them in the Chimera and get an extra round of shooting, but odds are it will still be standing after it busts open the chimera, and still have enough wounds to rip the veterans to shreds soon after.

Other than that, if you're running mech I can only suggest swapping Heavy Bolters for free Heavy Flamers every chance you get.

NuggzTheNinja wrote:IG should shred nids. Maybe you're running into target prioritization problems.

I'm assuming that you're running a Mech list. If so, there isn't much there that shouldn't punk Nids in awful ways every game. All of the things that make Mech IG nasty (Hydras, Manticores, Vendettas, Melta Vets, etc.) are absolute murder on Nids. Lots and lots of high S shooting.

Post both lists so we can see what we're talking about. Mech IG and infantry-heavy IG are completely different armies.

Off the top of my head my last list was CCS in a chimera, plasma vets in chimera, plasma vets in a vendetta, 3 hellhounds (two in a squadron), Punisher with Pask+HB sponsons+ Heavy Stubber. This was at 1250 points.
Throughout the entire game there were two squads of zooanthropes, a squad of hive guard and a tryannofix, all within range of my tanks and all causing havok. I didn't have enough dakka to deal with them all quickly - two zooanthropes, with their BS4 Strength 10 Lance shooting will rip guard armour to shred, in short order...but so will Hive Guard. HG get cover, zooanthropes get 3+ invul. Reliably taking down these enemies, who are not polite enough to wander into rapid-fire range, is difficult. It's entirely possible for them to take on mech guard in a shooting contest, and win. The short range of zooanthropes means I have about 1 turn of shooting to get in before they're in range.
And this was a game that my opponent's tyrannofex spent halfway across the field. Though if he was up front with everything else he probably wouldn't died to plasma fire pretty quickly.
Also,squadronning doesn't work. At all. Kaboom! My 3 Hellhounds in total got 1 shot before they were popped.

Testify wrote:

NuggzTheNinja wrote:IG should shred nids. Maybe you're running into target prioritization problems.

I'm assuming that you're running a Mech list. If so, there isn't much there that shouldn't punk Nids in awful ways every game. All of the things that make Mech IG nasty (Hydras, Manticores, Vendettas, Melta Vets, etc.) are absolute murder on Nids. Lots and lots of high S shooting.

Post both lists so we can see what we're talking about. Mech IG and infantry-heavy IG are completely different armies.

Off the top of my head my last list was CCS in a chimera, plasma vets in chimera, plasma vets in a vendetta, 3 hellhounds (two in a squadron), Punisher with Pask+HB sponsons+ Heavy Stubber. This was at 1250 points.
Throughout the entire game there were two squads of zooanthropes, a squad of hive guard and a tryannofix, all within range of my tanks and all causing havok. I didn't have enough dakka to deal with them all quickly - two zooanthropes, with their BS4 Strength 10 Lance shooting will rip guard armour to shred, in short order...but so will Hive Guard. HG get cover, zooanthropes get 3+ invul. Reliably taking down these enemies, who are not polite enough to wander into rapid-fire range, is difficult. It's entirely possible for them to take on mech guard in a shooting contest, and win. The short range of zooanthropes means I have about 1 turn of shooting to get in before they're in range.
And this was a game that my opponent's tyrannofex spent halfway across the field. Though if he was up front with everything else he probably wouldn't died to plasma fire pretty quickly.
Also,squadronning doesn't work. At all. Kaboom! My 3 Hellhounds in total got 1 shot before they were popped.

You don't have any ranged units. Punisher's may deliver 20+ shots, but at 24" anything Tyranid can punch it clean through. Even a standard Russ has a 72" reach. Mech Guard are crap without their long range suppliments.

The damage output on a vanilla russ is rubbish though. For every four that you cover with a pie plate, on average only one will die. Oh and they can only only give one wound the big guys, which are the important ones.
Manticores have a similar problem. They miss more often than they hit, and they can only give one wound to the big guys - and the little guys are easy enough to kill with other stuff anyway.
The only really useful Heavy Support, other than Pask/Punisher, is the Hydra, and it's tough getting enough of those in without squadronning, which also makes them far less survivable, and useful.

Testify wrote:The damage output on a vanilla russ is rubbish though. For every four that you cover with a pie plate, on average only one will die. Oh and they can only only give one wound the big guys, which are the important ones.

If cover is giving you a fit, upgrade it to an Eradicator. 36" Stregth 6, Ap 4 Large Blast, No Cover saves. But you also have to realise that the Battle Cannon nor the Eradicator are designed to kill single models/vehicles. They are sub-par in that department, but strong in killing hordes of infantry/elite infantry (moreso the Battle Cannon against MEQ units). Usually, the Leman Russ Varients are strongly pointed towards covering surface area, aside from three, which only the Vanquisher is the only dedicated anti-tank Russ (the Demolisher is the Jack of All Trade if you really want a middle-of-the-road Russ).

Your best bet besides a Pask Punisher is letting infantry shoot the Monsterous Creature, or let a Vanquisher have at it (which I don't reccommend).

Manticores have a similar problem. They miss more often than they hit, and they can only give one wound to the big guys - and the little guys are easy enough to kill with other stuff anyway.

Again, trying to shoot a fly with explosives. The artillery's main strength is total surface area and counts as a barrage when squadroned, and fire without Line of Sight (valuable in Night Fighting). Absolutely lethal to hunkered down infantry, or hordes all together. Coupled with Ordnance Barrage means a -1 to LD when rolling for pinning.

Can you try to hit vehicles and Monsterous Creatures with them? Of course, but there are far better choices to adress them.

The only really useful Heavy Support, other than Pask/Punisher, is the Hydra, and it's tough getting enough of those in without squadronning, which also makes them far less survivable, and useful.

My personally hated IG are Manticores with those d3 s10 pie plates, and vendetta gun ships 3 TL lascannons just flat hurt.
Both have the range and strength to start doing first turn damage to MC's. I have had a vendetta drop an MC every other turn.

IF they are walking the MC, then you don't have much to fear. If it can DS or outflank then you have something to worry about.

One of the absolute best IG tactics for MC is the "Bring it Down" order. I have lost more Tyrants to that. It really is worth getting the sloggers out of the tin can so they can do the job. Then load them back up and move out.

Generally speaking your Vendettas should be run empty. I used to use them as transports and found that it just made them MORE of a priority for my opponent. Better to disperse the threatening things evenly than lump them in those particularly juicy baskets.

Also, where are the long range assets? Manticores, Hydras, Medusas, etc.? Hellhounds are a *maybe take 1* kind of proposition. 3 is excessive as they're using up slots better taken by Vendettas.

KplKeegan wrote:

Testify wrote:The damage output on a vanilla russ is rubbish though. For every four that you cover with a pie plate, on average only one will die. Oh and they can only only give one wound the big guys, which are the important ones.

If cover is giving you a fit, upgrade it to an Eradicator. 36" Stregth 6, Ap 4 Large Blast, No Cover saves. But you also have to realise that the Battle Cannon nor the Eradicator are designed to kill single models/vehicles. They are sub-par in that department, but strong in killing hordes of infantry/elite infantry (moreso the Battle Cannon against MEQ units). Usually, the Leman Russ Varients are strongly pointed towards covering surface area, aside from three, which only the Vanquisher is the only dedicated anti-tank Russ (the Demolisher is the Jack of All Trade if you really want a middle-of-the-road Russ).

I ran eradicators on my first game, they were pretty underwealming. Considering the ease that 'nids destroy, killing 6-7 'gaunts before being wrecked was pretty bad. Looking objectively I'm probably much better off with Mantciores for the little ones.

KplKeegan wrote:
Your best bet besides a Pask Punisher is letting infantry shoot the Monsterous Creature, or let a Vanquisher have at it (which I don't reccommend).

To be fair his monsterous creatures got turned to mush whenever they got anywhere near my gunline. Bring It Down! with rapid firing plasma guns is fantastic. The only MCs giving me trouple were the spawning one that sits on objectives and the Tyrannofex that hung back and shot his S10 thing at my vehicles (probably a balls-up on my opponent's part, I expect him to

KplKeegan wrote:
Why don't you squadron them? Six of them could put a tremendous amount of wounds on an MC in a round of shooting alone.

They're really easy to kill if you squadron them, I want as many separate targets as possible. Plus I still want my Pask Punisher.

barnowl wrote:My personally hated IG are Manticores with those d3 s10 pie plates, and vendetta gun ships 3 TL lascannons just flat hurt.
Both have the range and strength to start doing first turn damage to MC's. I have had a vendetta drop an MC every other turn.

IF they are walking the MC, then you don't have much to fear. If it can DS or outflank then you have something to worry about.

One of the absolute best IG tactics for MC is the "Bring it Down" order. I have lost more Tyrants to that. It really is worth getting the sloggers out of the tin can so they can do the job. Then load them back up and move out.

I've noticed how effective Bring It Down is. To the extent I'm actually considering giving my squads voxes, despite being mech-based. A single failed order can mean the difference between a dead Hive Tyrant and a very, very alive one.

NuggzTheNinja wrote:Generally speaking your Vendettas should be run empty. I used to use them as transports and found that it just made them MORE of a priority for my opponent. Better to disperse the threatening things evenly than lump them in those particularly juicy baskets.

Also, where are the long range assets? Manticores, Hydras, Medusas, etc.? Hellhounds are a *maybe take 1* kind of proposition. 3 is excessive as they're using up slots better taken by Vendettas.

Yeah it's obvious to me now that I was taking too many Hellhounds. My heavy support in future will probably be 2 Manticores and a Pask Punisher.