Enslaver Plague

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**Pilau Rice**

Kain wrote:
As much as I dislike his fluff, the fact that the Chaos Gods are stated to be unable to do anything to Draigo suggests that even within their realms they are not all powerful. If a catastrophe in the materium (which the Gods cannot directly influence) were to bring the Enslavers back to their old numbers, the Chaos Gods would be hard pressed to overcome that much concentrated psychic energy. Seeing as how they cannot overcome the Shadow of the Hive Mind or the Light of the Astronomicon despite there being plenty of good reasons for them to do so, suggests that something on a similar scale would simply be beyond their ability to overcome. An enslaver plague capable of affecting the entire galaxy simultaneously would probably be a warp front of similar power to the Shadow of the Hive Mind or the Astronomicon. And unlike those two it's going to do a lot more than just passively affect the warp, they're going to actively blow up anything that tries to stop their nomming.

As the Enslavers in the materium (which again, the gods of the warp can't directly affect) slaughter everything that Chaos needs to feed itself, the Gods will become more and more ineffectual and their servants will likewise become a weaker and weaker force in the warp until the Enslavers decide to just finish them off once and for all and kill the Chaos Gods to prevent any further interference in their harvest of the materium after having weakened them enormously. Chaos has an achilles heel, and that is it's dependence on the Materium, while it is a hard achilles heel to exploit, if anything can do it, it would be a Great Enslaver Plague. We're talking about an event that would make the Horus Heresy and the Thirteen Black Crusades look like a minor scrap over cutting in front of a line.

Yeah, still not convinced, Daemons are the dominant race in the warp and have been for at least the last 10,000 years in 40k, if Enslavers were ever going to be anything more than a minor irritation then something would have happened in that period of time.

As far as I know Enslavers have too much of a dependence on requiring pskers to be able to manifest or to enslave others. The Chaos Gods don't need this, they just need people dumb enough to follow them. Not only do the Enslavers have to fight over their pick of psykers but they also have to deal with those psykers being killed or carted off by the Imperium.

You're not going to see the same scale of event with Enslavers ever again.

Or maybe you will and we get a Codex Enslavers: Every races arch nemesis.

Melissia wrote:There's lore regarding Enslavers getting through in the Dark Heresy supplements. I recommend looking up Creatures Anathema.

Will check it out Mel, maybe my outlook will be changed.

**Kain**

Pilau Rice wrote:
Kain wrote:
As much as I dislike his fluff, the fact that the Chaos Gods are stated to be unable to do anything to Draigo suggests that even within their realms they are not all powerful. If a catastrophe in the materium (which the Gods cannot directly influence) were to bring the Enslavers back to their old numbers, the Chaos Gods would be hard pressed to overcome that much concentrated psychic energy. Seeing as how they cannot overcome the Shadow of the Hive Mind or the Light of the Astronomicon despite there being plenty of good reasons for them to do so, suggests that something on a similar scale would simply be beyond their ability to overcome. An enslaver plague capable of affecting the entire galaxy simultaneously would probably be a warp front of similar power to the Shadow of the Hive Mind or the Astronomicon. And unlike those two it's going to do a lot more than just passively affect the warp, they're going to actively blow up anything that tries to stop their nomming.

As the Enslavers in the materium (which again, the gods of the warp can't directly affect) slaughter everything that Chaos needs to feed itself, the Gods will become more and more ineffectual and their servants will likewise become a weaker and weaker force in the warp until the Enslavers decide to just finish them off once and for all and kill the Chaos Gods to prevent any further interference in their harvest of the materium after having weakened them enormously. Chaos has an achilles heel, and that is it's dependence on the Materium, while it is a hard achilles heel to exploit, if anything can do it, it would be a Great Enslaver Plague. We're talking about an event that would make the Horus Heresy and the Thirteen Black Crusades look like a minor scrap over cutting in front of a line.

Yeah, still not convinced, Daemons are the dominant race in the warp and have been for at least the last 10,000 years in 40k, if Enslavers were ever going to be anything more than a minor irritation then something would have happened in that period of time.

As far as I know Enslavers have too much of a dependence on requiring pskers to be able to manifest or to enslave others. The Chaos Gods don't need this, they just need people dumb enough to follow them. Not only do the Enslavers have to fight over their pick of psykers but they also have to deal with those psykers being killed or carted off by the Imperium.

You're not going to see the same scale of event with Enslavers ever again.

Or maybe you will and we get a Codex Enslavers: Every races arch nemesis.

Melissia wrote:There's lore regarding Enslavers getting through in the Dark Heresy supplements. I recommend looking up Creatures Anathema.

Will check it out Mel, maybe my outlook will be changed.

This thread is about a hypothetical event where we see another great galaxy wide enslaver plague and see who's boned and who isn't. I think it can be agreed that if that were to happen, everyone is going to walk out of the event either very, very dead, or horribly beaten. We're not discussing how likely it is, we're discussing what would happen if somehow, against all the odds it occurred.

Although I now have the mental image of a warband of noise marines playing dragonforce on their sonic weapons, standing on top of a mountain of dead enslavers as more and more keep on charging at them. I don't know whether to be baffled at my imagination or revel in the sheer 80s of it.

**Asherian Command**

I still see the Chaos Gods as daemons, they can still be slain. Gods Can still die. Enslavers are older than the chaos gods. the Enslavers would slaughter the Chaos Gods if they reached their peak. (which could happen.)
The only known thing that can stop a Enslaver effectively is stasis. (Well the plague)

All the Librarians that went with the Storm Wardens died. (nemesis incident) http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Storm_Wardens

**Pilau Rice**

Like a Daemon an Enslaver can be killed by your run of the mill Bolter, albeit rather difficultly.

The difference between the two is that where a Daemon never actually dies, unless it's warp presence is destroyed, an Enslaver is dead. Both have the vast numbers, but Daemons have the whole resurrection thing on their side.

The Enslaver Plague was a huge thing, but there were so many psykers running around at the time it made it a big thing. Now the Eldar aren't about in anywhere near as many numbers, the Imperium weeds out rogue psykers and trains/turns into a meal, the ones it can.

I just don't see the Enslavers being any kind of issue as they once were. But sure, they could be in a hypothetical situation.

**SagesStone**

Daemons don't get killed by Bolters though, when their physical body is killed they just go back to the warp to heal. Daemon needs to be killed specially to be gone forever; an advantage they hold over the Enslavers.

**KamikazeCanuck**

Maybe Daemons and Enslavers just ignore each other in the warp. Both of them prey on realspace folk and there's plenty of them to go around.

**ContemplativeSphinx**

The only time i've ever seen a relatively large conflict involving the Enslavers in the modern era was in a mentioning in one of the Deathwatch RPG supplements.

I believe it talked about a fight over a Space Hulk between the Tyranids and the Enslavers. It was an ongoing struggle which the Tyranids seemed to be losing - one description that i found striking during their "proxy war" was that some of the purer strain Tyranids would end up locking themselves in different parts of the Space Hulk and essentially sacrificing their broods to the predations of the Enslavers..

**CthuluIsSpy**

ContemplativeSphinx wrote:The only time i've ever seen a relatively large conflict involving the Enslavers in the modern era was in a mentioning in one of the Deathwatch RPG supplements.

I believe it talked about a fight over a Space Hulk between the Tyranids and the Enslavers. It was an ongoing struggle which the Tyranids seemed to be losing - one description that i found striking during their "proxy war" was that some of the purer strain Tyranids would end up locking themselves in different parts of the Space Hulk and essentially sacrificing their broods to the predations of the Enslavers..

The enslavers were beating the nids?
There's an idea for a weapon...

**MandalorynOranj**

Hmm... think the Enslavers could be what the nids may be running from?

**SagesStone**

I don't think weaponising Enslavers would be the best of ideas though.

They could be, though when you think about it where could they actually run to.

**Asherian Command**

So the nids weakness is the Enslavers?
Makes sense. Who wants to face the psychic killers in combat?

**ContemplativeSphinx**

Asherian Command wrote:So the nids weakness is the Enslavers?
Makes sense. Who wants to face the psychic killers in combat?

Well i wouldn't necessary call it an absolute weakness - but it did seem like (at least to me) that the 'nids were on the weaker side of the conflict.

Essentially the "nids and the Enslavers were playing one giant game of Chess with the Orks, Genestealers, random folks stuck on the Space Hulk.

Usually its the Genestealers/Tyranids that "rule the roost" on a Space Hulk. The Enslavers are pretty much a threat that is out of left field - they essentially use the same tactics (just different methods) in dominating lesser creatures.

Its a form of adversarial combat that the 'nids are not used too - after all this was supposed to be their schtick.

The best part of the whole scenario was that within the press of the whole Space Hulk there is One Imperial navy Ship that got caught in it during a warp storm - with its crew still alive and Gellar Field intact.

So they literally have front row seats to the greatest Xenos combat exercise in the sector.

**Asherian Command**

So they just sat back grabbed some chips and cookies and the commissar said "Ah yeah funny thing lets watch them kill each other men!"

I still call that a weakness plus what I have seen and read they probably can go through the warp to any being that is pyschic potent. And infest itself. So nids aren't safe against it.

**ContemplativeSphinx**

Asherian Command wrote:So they just sat back grabbed some chips and cookies and the commissar said "Ah yeah funny thing lets watch them kill each other men!"

They're always on the edge of trouble - waiting for a heroic Deathwatch team to lead them to safety...

Until then - they might as kick back, relax, make sure that Geller field remains active, and pass the margaritas around.

I still call that a weakness plus what I have seen and read they probably can go through the warp to any being that is pyschic potent. And infest itself. So nids aren't safe against it.

Oh they aren't - i guess that's why the "higher tier" nids just go dominate whatever meat body is around and send them at the Dominated Meat Bodies owned by the Enslavers while running to isolated portions of the Space Hulk.

**Asherian Command**

So basically Nids vs Enslavers... Enslavers win everytime?

**ContemplativeSphinx**

Asherian Command wrote:So basically Nids vs Enslavers... Enslavers win everytime?

You mean on the Space Hulk or as a universal rule?

**Asherian Command**

ContemplativeSphinx wrote:
Asherian Command wrote:So basically Nids vs Enslavers... Enslavers win everytime?

You mean on the Space Hulk or as a universal rule?

universal. Because i think seeing all your buddy Hive Tyrants die is something the hivemind would be like "OH FETH! RUN AWAY!"

**ContemplativeSphinx**

Asherian Command wrote:
ContemplativeSphinx wrote:
Asherian Command wrote:So basically Nids vs Enslavers... Enslavers win everytime?

You mean on the Space Hulk or as a universal rule?

universal. Because i think seeing all your buddy Hive Tyrants die is something the hivemind would be like "OH FETH! RUN AWAY!"

Naah. I suspect that that GW would pull a rabbit out of the Tyranid hat and declare something like:

"Certain species of Tyranids are not affected - they rapidly evolved to be resistant"

or

"the Hive Mind exerts a greater control over the Tyranid swarm, cancelling the effects of the Enslavers."

etc..etc..etc..

**Pilau Rice**

Was their any explanation as to how the Enslavers were influencing the Tyranids and was it actually Tyranids or Genestealers?

Enslavers can control creatures that aren't psykers but I would have thought that the dominance of the Hive Mind would possibly have cancelled this out. Tyranid organisms don't have a connection to the warp like other races do.

**Warpfire**

I would think that the Enslavers would have issues against the Tyranids as they have a limit to how many it could control so in my opinion it would be rather like, oh no he's controlling him shoot them both.

as there's plenty of guns (and claws) to go around.

**ContemplativeSphinx**

Pilau Rice wrote:Was their any explanation as to how the Enslavers were influencing the Tyranids and was it actually Tyranids or Genestealers?

Enslavers can control creatures that aren't psykers but I would have thought that the dominance of the Hive Mind would possibly have cancelled this out. Tyranid organisms don't have a connection to the warp like other races do.

I believe it was Tyranids and Genestealers. Should really dig up the Deathwatch RPG books - but i can't remember where i saw the passage to begin with.

And no, they didn't go into much detail as to how the Enslavers were pulling off their tricks. Just that it was becoming a bit of a drawn out Proxy War with both Tyranids and Enslavers looking for meat bodies to wage it.

**KamikazeCanuck**

I'd have figured The Shadow in the Warp effect would have protected them.

**Pilau Rice**

ContemplativeSphinx wrote:Just that it was becoming a bit of a drawn out Proxy War with both Tyranids and Enslavers looking for meat bodies to wage it.

Tyranids looking for meat bodies and not doing the dirty themselves?

**SagesStone**

Well that is how Genestealler cults start off after all.

**Pilau Rice**

n0t_u wrote:Well that is how Genestealler cults start off after all.

True, but from what Sphinx was saying it sounded like Tyranids using other Tyraninds and Enlsavers using Tyraninds.

**ContemplativeSphinx**

Pilau Rice wrote:
n0t_u wrote:Well that is how Genestealler cults start off after all.

True, but from what Sphinx was saying it sounded like Tyranids using other Tyraninds and Enlsavers using Tyraninds.

Moratorium on discussion - Now i need to find that passage before we accidentally send off incorrect information into the void.

Anyone else with a Copy of Deathwatch books that can help out? Just look for the passage about a Space Hulk (there's only 1 in the whole sector)

**Sinestro**

Would not the (sp) Hexgrammic wards installed under the Grey Knight skin since they are a ward against both psyker and daemon, as well as the exhaustive mental conditioning a GN receives make them extremely difficult to corrupt by an an enslaver? from wh40k wiki
"Enslavers cannot possess sanctioned psykers as easily as unsanctioned psykers due to the preparation their minds have undergone. An Enslaver can be overwhelmed if enough psychic minds are present as it will have too many minds to try and assimilate at once. Unfortunately, the protection sanctioned psykers have is temporary and with enough pressure upon their mind, they will break and be obliterated by the Enslaver. Even so, the resistance of a sanctioned psyker would be strong enough for the psyker and others around them to mount a physical attack against the creature or its possessed host. " And GN's are far above just sanctioned.

**Matt.Kingsley**

I thought the old 'cron dex talked about the enslavers, but then said that the necrons didn't go into sleep because of the enslavers?

I remember a passage about the deciever saying that they didn't effect the necrons

But, yeah, pretty much everyone will be suffed

**Janthkin**

Please don't revive threads more than a month dormant.