A question for dakkas mods.

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**timetowaste85**

MajorTom11 wrote:There are a lot of preconceptions about being a Mod that are completely unrelated to reality, at least here at Dakka.

Not one of us is 'power mad' and all in my experience are exceedingly patient... despite the fact my preceding opinion will be considered biased of course, I would hope some reading it would entertain the idea it may be true instead of delusional lol.

Actually using our 'power' is very constrained and only in the direst circumstance do we swing the ban-hammer, even then, with many chances given to the offending party. Shutting down threads etc is done at our discretion generally, and we only really shut things down if it is completely off topic, or if there is heavy flaming... sometimes through experience we know certain topics are guaranteed ticking time bombs, and we close them down before they can get under way.

Other than that, and the 3 rules, be polite, stay on topic, don't spam, we tend to leave things be. Generally speaking, Dakka is by a vast majority really cool and rule respecting people, the trouble makers tend to get noticed a lot more as a vocal minority.

What really gets me as the newest Mod is how often people go nuts when they get moderated after very obviously breaking the rules. Or go nuts for being moderated at all even if they didn't realize they were breaking rules. A lot regard any moderation at all as 'patronizing', I can't tell you how many times people have gotten incredibly rude with us just for a very normal and even non-offensive moderation action. One guy recently went bonkers because I shut down a question thread in News and Rumors... it is a known, posted guideline, no one was rude about it... it didn't matter. Some people don't like rules or being told what to do, even if they agreed to that on sign-up lol.

It is usually these kinds of people who you then see running around bad-mouthing the Mods calling them power mad etc. Which is really frustrating as you might imagine.

All I can say is that the Mods here are a bunch of hobbyists and gamers just like you. They are all expert in some regard of the hobby, they are all Mods because they are calm, patient people. They all spend a great deal of time for no reward to try and make Dakka the best possible place for the 10's of thousands of registered users, and the 100's of thousands of unregistered visitors this site see's every month. Being a Mod doesn't mean power, it means being a customer complaint line lol, we see all the ugly things and try to clean them up before they effect the rest of you, then we get yelled at lol! We aren't allowed to yell back either, it would be disrespectful to the trust the owners put in us to be civil and calm as much as possible.

That's the way it is at Dakka. But as Insaniak said, there are no Mod rules, each site will be run exactly as the owner see's fit. The only rules are their preferences.

The way I see it, your wife should ask the Mod about why he decided to do what he did. If he is a good guy he will answer her and explain the reasoning, which may help her understand and maybe even encourage her to help the staff out by helping coral discussions in acceptable directions. If he doesn't answer, or tells her to eff off, then he is 'that kind of Mod' and she will either have to accept that he will be unpredictable and arbitrary or move on.

A fair point Tom, but I've had myself a few raised eyebrows on MOD actions-I actually messaged RITides about one of my posts in the swap shop being threatened with a closing because I wrote "have" instead of "H". He informed me he wasn't the one responsible (he was the only one online at the time, so I asked him), but while I was polite in my response, I was very irritated. I understand rules set, but that MOD's actions seemed so OCD that it bordered on ridiculous. I have my suspicions who did it, but that's neither here nor there. Some MODs do make a show of their power, even if they don't actually feel it, they SEEM to the general community to revel in it. And I've seen a few flame-baity MOD responses in offtopic, but those of us who aren't soft and easily offended recognize the joking attitudes as what they really are. Just throwing my 2 cents in on the matter.

**pretre**

timetowaste85 wrote:I actually messaged RITides about one of my posts in the swap shop being threatened with a closing because I wrote "have" instead of "H". He informed me he wasn't the one responsible (he was the only one online at the time, so I asked him), but while I was polite in my response, I was very irritated. I understand rules set, but that MOD's actions seemed so OCD that it bordered on ridiculous.

To be fair, the Swap Shop guidelines are very clear that all posts have to be formatted in a certain way. It is probably a C&P answer for any formatting fixes they do. I.e. 'Make sure to correctly format your SS post or it can be closed.'

No malicious intent, just people making sure you follow the rules.

**ShumaGorath**

I disagree with what you said and think you have a very, very skewed perspective. Multiple Mods informing you definitively that you had broken rules on both occasions was not sufficient enough to make you even consider you may have been wrong

Both of those times you were the only mod that EVER contacted me, so I don't know where these "multiple mods" are coming from. I actually appreciate that you did though, most bannings were done in silence and my emails usually weren't responded to.

You remain adamant that your view is the correct one despite the fact that by definition our combined interpretation would be a final interpretation of events. Many explanations were attempted civilly, and rejected. The only option you seem able to accept is being 100% right, which simply wasn't the case in both situations you refer to.

You're right. I'm not particularly willing to compromise. That's because I'm right.

You gave your opinion, I gave mine, we can leave it at that. We don't have to agree, we just have to remain civil in our disagreement. That is really all that is required here, and unless you have something to prove or are looking for a fight, then I see no reason we can't simply agree to disagree and let it be.

You banned me twice. One of those times was for a month for calling a guy that insisted three posts in a row that i was a terrorist sympathizer a troll, so no, there's a little more than just letting bygons be bygons here. You banned me for being the victim there and the other guy walked away. That's messed up.

You will note that your comments slamming the staff here are left for everyone to see. If we were the kind of people you describe, we would simply erase them and ban you and save ourselves the trouble. But again, we try to explain in as reasonable a fashion as possible.

I didn't say there was a grand conspiracy, I said that moderation was uneven and that there was little oversight. My still being around after all this time is actually pretty indicative of that. The fact that apparently I'm such a troublemaker that I no longer actually have to violate rules to be banned for a week or more (i've been banned by accident twice when warnings were given to everyone in a thread at the same time) and yet i'm still around is weird, don't you think?

If you prefer to play some kind of baiting game, that's up to you. I am sure I speak for everyone in saying we would greatly prefer it just to be left at that and everyone move on without further hassle. However, if you want to push your luck you should not be surprised at the results either.

**Frazzled**

I agree and thinks its weird. Ban him quickly to rectify this error. To the Bannery!

OK I'll shut up so the OP can get actual good advice.

**MajorTom11**

timetowaste85 wrote:
MajorTom11 wrote:There are a lot of preconceptions about being a Mod that are completely unrelated to reality, at least here at Dakka.

Not one of us is 'power mad' and all in my experience are exceedingly patient... despite the fact my preceding opinion will be considered biased of course, I would hope some reading it would entertain the idea it may be true instead of delusional lol.

Actually using our 'power' is very constrained and only in the direst circumstance do we swing the ban-hammer, even then, with many chances given to the offending party. Shutting down threads etc is done at our discretion generally, and we only really shut things down if it is completely off topic, or if there is heavy flaming... sometimes through experience we know certain topics are guaranteed ticking time bombs, and we close them down before they can get under way.

Other than that, and the 3 rules, be polite, stay on topic, don't spam, we tend to leave things be. Generally speaking, Dakka is by a vast majority really cool and rule respecting people, the trouble makers tend to get noticed a lot more as a vocal minority.

What really gets me as the newest Mod is how often people go nuts when they get moderated after very obviously breaking the rules. Or go nuts for being moderated at all even if they didn't realize they were breaking rules. A lot regard any moderation at all as 'patronizing', I can't tell you how many times people have gotten incredibly rude with us just for a very normal and even non-offensive moderation action. One guy recently went bonkers because I shut down a question thread in News and Rumors... it is a known, posted guideline, no one was rude about it... it didn't matter. Some people don't like rules or being told what to do, even if they agreed to that on sign-up lol.

It is usually these kinds of people who you then see running around bad-mouthing the Mods calling them power mad etc. Which is really frustrating as you might imagine.

All I can say is that the Mods here are a bunch of hobbyists and gamers just like you. They are all expert in some regard of the hobby, they are all Mods because they are calm, patient people. They all spend a great deal of time for no reward to try and make Dakka the best possible place for the 10's of thousands of registered users, and the 100's of thousands of unregistered visitors this site see's every month. Being a Mod doesn't mean power, it means being a customer complaint line lol, we see all the ugly things and try to clean them up before they effect the rest of you, then we get yelled at lol! We aren't allowed to yell back either, it would be disrespectful to the trust the owners put in us to be civil and calm as much as possible.

That's the way it is at Dakka. But as Insaniak said, there are no Mod rules, each site will be run exactly as the owner see's fit. The only rules are their preferences.

The way I see it, your wife should ask the Mod about why he decided to do what he did. If he is a good guy he will answer her and explain the reasoning, which may help her understand and maybe even encourage her to help the staff out by helping coral discussions in acceptable directions. If he doesn't answer, or tells her to eff off, then he is 'that kind of Mod' and she will either have to accept that he will be unpredictable and arbitrary or move on.

A fair point Tom, but I've had myself a few raised eyebrows on MOD actions-I actually messaged RITides about one of my posts in the swap shop being threatened with a closing because I wrote "have" instead of "H". He informed me he wasn't the one responsible (he was the only one online at the time, so I asked him), but while I was polite in my response, I was very irritated. I understand rules set, but that MOD's actions seemed so OCD that it bordered on ridiculous. I have my suspicions who did it, but that's neither here nor there. Some MODs do make a show of their power, even if they don't actually feel it, they SEEM to the general community to revel in it. And I've seen a few flame-baity MOD responses in offtopic, but those of us who aren't soft and easily offended recognize the joking attitudes as what they really are. Just throwing my 2 cents in on the matter.

I can actually quite sympathize with that.

We make mistakes for sure. I make mistakes.

OT is kind of difficult to participate in at all without getting damn close to rule breaking, which is why I stay well away personally.

I would hope, in general though, despite slips, that most would feel we are pretty fair and light handed. Sometimes it is tough to remember that we are Dakka users too and sometimes we participate as users.

I can say that I myself retracted a few actions I took without realizing the full facts or acting too quick. I can also say that since the MOD tag got put next to my name, there have been many instances where my words were wildly misinterpreted in both tone and content by some users. It catches me off guard every time as some people seem to think of MODs as threatening or 'powermad' entities off the bat. Which saddens me.

That being said, we all do our best for the site, if any one Mod had a clear trail of discord, or even a few instances of it, they would be talked to by the group and possibly removed. We just want things quiet and smooth here as possible. Of course there will always be topics and users that force us to act, but really, it is more of a hassle than anything else. Using Mod power = work and time.

Just remember, and this goes for everyone, anytime, that if you have a problem, or feel any Mod is overstepping or getting away with rule breaking, hit the alert button. We all see those alerts, and I can tell you with certainty if there is an issue it is discussed and taken seriously. We don't want bad PR, and everyone feels responsible to not make the other Mods job harder.

In all fairness though, you always have to be ready for the fact that we may disagree. All that can be promised, and hopefully believed, is that we will talk about it and do our best to do the right thing for the site and you.

**ShumaGorath**

Just remember, and this goes for everyone, anytime, that if you have a problem, or feel any Mod is overstepping or getting away with rule breaking, hit the alert button. We all see those alerts, and I can tell you with certainty if there is an issue it is discussed and taken seriously. We don't want bad PR, and everyone feels responsible to not make the other Mods job harder.

It's hard to hit the alert button when you can't log into the forum for the next thirty days. Both times when I was banned by being next to an argument that had gone off topic I had no one I could appeal to. You're the only mod that has ever responded to an email about a banning. Back then the autoban was only three days which could account for why they wouldn't bother to return the mail, but it's still kind of a bad system of oversight for such a large community. The number of users under autoban is low though, I only know of one other, so it's kind of a fringe case.

**LunaHound**

ShumaGorath wrote:The last two times I've been banned it's been by the same mod, both times were for things that didn't actually violate the rules of DAKKA. The first time was because I called him out for something he said when he was trolling a topic.

So yeah, dakka moderators are self policing, have no oversight, and some of them aren't good at the role.

Alot of times, I don't think mods do bad things "on purpose".
However as they also said " we are only humans ".

Because of that, mod could be biased, they would see / not see things as intended.
I have a bunch of well written, on topic post deleted, felt like a wasted my time to actually put that much effort into composing a post.

As for me, its a weird relationship between me and mods atm.
One have accused me numerous times of things I.did.not.do. I would love to have a proper answer to what he was accusing me of,
but he doesn't respond to my PM anymore. I mean, Im fine with been punished for something I have done, but its pretty wth when he just sound angry
and refuse to tell me why.

On one hand, they are sick of me not letting something go.
While on my hand, Im sick of them continuing letting someone go when they shouldn't be.

The whole issue is beyond reasoning or care , and turned into the "did the hen or the egg come first".

What makes me depressed the most is. I love dakkadakka, I love the community and the resources it has and how everyone shares with each other. Even mods and posters would agree thats how I feel about the site.
Yet
They would simultaneously tell me if I dont like dakka, why do I bother staying? What is this? Schrodinger's cat and Quantum Physics? Let me tell you, its not. Its simply on how im perceived at different times.

**sharkticon**

I got a mod warning once for telling someone in the swap shop to "come back after you've gotten your business GED."

I was drunk, the warning was warranted. The point of this story is that I drunk post much less frequently now, and if the mods are going after you, you may want to look at your behavior, and see if anything needs to change.

**Mannahnin**

For reference, many, if not most of Shuma's statements about his moderator history in this thread have been inaccurate. Some of them probably as honest errors, others out of misinterpretations or possibly misremembering of details. I'm probably the most sympathetic to him of the entire moderator team, but this thread is an illustration for other folks of the kind of attitude one commonly sees from a person who has frequent probablems with moderation, and who is unable or unwilling to accept responsibility for his own posting behavior.

We far prefer not to ban anyone, and the number of people we have permanently removed from the site is miniscule. We don't mind criticism, and we do take it on board. But when six or ten (or more) of us review an incident, review the response, read the complaint, and agree that the poster was in the wrong, yet the poster insists they did nothing wrong, we're not all going to individually try to reason with the poster. You just try to keep it polite and respectful and stand by the rules, and hope folks modify their behavior before it gets to the point of permanent suspension.

**Janthkin**

Being a mod sucks. It diminishes your enjoyment of whatever forum you're moderating, and instead of making fun posts, you're spending your limited posting time trying to put out fires, remind people that there are certain rules they've agreed to follow, and writing up whatever actions you take to ensure as even-handed moderation as possible occurs (by making sure all of your colleagues have the same history of moderation actions as you do). And in your free time, you get to hear about how power-mad you are, or how some recently-banned

is going to find your address, come the

over, and

your

'ing

(I got that email about 5 days after starting to moderate). I do it because I've derived a ton of enjoyment from Dakka over the years, and I still believe it to be the best online community around, irrespective of topic.

(On the plus side, being a mod means I can unlock this thread, insert my comment, and put it back to rest.)