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I think they could advance the story without getting rid of any armies. It's simple really.

1. Abaddon's 13th Black Crusade proceeds to Terra and kills the Emp.
2. Astronomicon goes down. Imperium splinters into lots of angry Empires, some larger than others.
3. Hive Fleet Leviathan is still fighting the Orks.
4. Abaddon, about to consolidate his reign, is attacked by lots and lots o' Necrons. Big war between Chaos and Necrons begin.

Some fans would be pissed off that the Emperor died and the Imperium was hurt, but they could still play their old armies. The Space Marines and Imperial Guard and Sisters of Battle and Grey Knights would probably survive, with some maybe starting their own Empires and others seeking vengeance against the Black Legion and others seeking just to protect what's left.

EDIT: Hey, my 1300th post is about the 13th Black Crusade.

Honestly I think the hive fleet tendril thats heading for terra hits terra and utterly destroys earth throwing the imperium into darkness. But thats just me.

Cloudy with a chance of the story staying the same as it has since 2nd ed... then the Tau showed up in 3rd... that's about it

Only way the story will change is if Obama takes over GW.

Given that GW is English, unlikely...

Astronomicon goes down. Imperium splinters into lots of angry Empires, some larger than others.

Why not just please everybody and have the emperor reborn like he was in the past, rulling over a smaller but more unified and advanced imperium?

ZSO SAHALL wrote:

Astronomicon goes down. Imperium splinters into lots of angry Empires, some larger than others.

Why not just please everybody and have the emperor reborn like he was in the past, rulling over a smaller but more unified and advanced imperium?

I personally wouldn't like the Emperor being reborn. In my opinion he's just as dead as Horus, except his corpse is more useful than Horus' corpse.

In my opinion he's just as dead as Horus, except his corpse is more useful than Horus' corpse.

Creating the storm of the Emperrs wrath, guiding ships, granting his followers power against chaos(proven in several books). Given that the Emperor has existed as separate being, and has had past lives i'd be enclined to say he's not easily destroyed, especially if he is the anathema as the chaos god say.

LoneLictor wrote:I think they could advance the story without getting rid of any armies. It's simple really.

1. Abaddon's 13th Black Crusade proceeds to Terra and kills the Emp.
2. Astronomicon goes down. Imperium splinters into lots of angry Empires, some larger than others.
3. Hive Fleet Leviathan is still fighting the Orks.
4. Abaddon, about to consolidate his reign, is attacked by lots and lots o' Necrons. Big war between Chaos and Necrons begin.

Some fans would be pissed off that the Emperor died and the Imperium was hurt, but they could still play their old armies. The Space Marines and Imperial Guard and Sisters of Battle and Grey Knights would probably survive, with some maybe starting their own Empires and others seeking vengeance against the Black Legion and others seeking just to protect what's left.

EDIT: Hey, my 1300th post is about the 13th Black Crusade.

Abaddon is not going to get near Terra. He doesn't have the manpower or the resources to make a dent in the Solar defense force (the forces of Chaos will always and have always been outnumbered by the IoM by a massive margin, it's always just been a matter of the loyalist's getting their forces there) which have gotten even bigger than they were in the heresy. The only faction with enough power to do that would be unified orks, unified necrons, or an entire hive fleet on the scale of leviathan flinging itself at just the solar system. Out of this, only the Tyranids are likely to do this anytime soon within the canon.

Kain wrote:

LoneLictor wrote:I think they could advance the story without getting rid of any armies. It's simple really.

1. Abaddon's 13th Black Crusade proceeds to Terra and kills the Emp.
2. Astronomicon goes down. Imperium splinters into lots of angry Empires, some larger than others.
3. Hive Fleet Leviathan is still fighting the Orks.
4. Abaddon, about to consolidate his reign, is attacked by lots and lots o' Necrons. Big war between Chaos and Necrons begin.

Some fans would be pissed off that the Emperor died and the Imperium was hurt, but they could still play their old armies. The Space Marines and Imperial Guard and Sisters of Battle and Grey Knights would probably survive, with some maybe starting their own Empires and others seeking vengeance against the Black Legion and others seeking just to protect what's left.

EDIT: Hey, my 1300th post is about the 13th Black Crusade.

Abaddon is not going to get near Terra. He doesn't have the manpower or the resources to make a dent in the Solar defense force (the forces of Chaos will always and have always been outnumbered by the IoM by a massive margin, it's always just been a matter of the loyalist's getting their forces there) which have gotten even bigger than they were in the heresy. The only faction with enough power to do that would be unified orks, unified necrons, or an entire hive fleet on the scale of leviathan flinging itself at just the solar system. Out of this, only the Tyranids are likely to do this anytime soon within the canon.

The 3rd and 5th ed. Chaos Codexs say that once Abaddon gets past Cadia that Terra is doomed. And now Abaddon has THREE spaceships that can blow up planets in one hit. It isn't a stretch to say he could reach Terra.

LoneLictor wrote:

Kain wrote:

LoneLictor wrote:I think they could advance the story without getting rid of any armies. It's simple really.

1. Abaddon's 13th Black Crusade proceeds to Terra and kills the Emp.
2. Astronomicon goes down. Imperium splinters into lots of angry Empires, some larger than others.
3. Hive Fleet Leviathan is still fighting the Orks.
4. Abaddon, about to consolidate his reign, is attacked by lots and lots o' Necrons. Big war between Chaos and Necrons begin.

Some fans would be pissed off that the Emperor died and the Imperium was hurt, but they could still play their old armies. The Space Marines and Imperial Guard and Sisters of Battle and Grey Knights would probably survive, with some maybe starting their own Empires and others seeking vengeance against the Black Legion and others seeking just to protect what's left.

EDIT: Hey, my 1300th post is about the 13th Black Crusade.

Abaddon is not going to get near Terra. He doesn't have the manpower or the resources to make a dent in the Solar defense force (the forces of Chaos will always and have always been outnumbered by the IoM by a massive margin, it's always just been a matter of the loyalist's getting their forces there) which have gotten even bigger than they were in the heresy. The only faction with enough power to do that would be unified orks, unified necrons, or an entire hive fleet on the scale of leviathan flinging itself at just the solar system. Out of this, only the Tyranids are likely to do this anytime soon within the canon.

The 3rd and 5th ed. Chaos Codexs say that once Abaddon gets past Cadia that Terra is doomed. And now Abaddon has THREE spaceships that can blow up planets in one hit. It isn't a stretch to say he could reach Terra.

Before the other three doom of all factions that are all far more numerous? Unlikely. If he tried, knowing Warhammer, he'd end up bumping into a hive fleet and his entire crusade would be slaughtered to a man with only him surviving, running back to the eye of terror with his tail tucked between his legs after getting his terminator plated arse being handed to by xenos. Then the Hive fleet promptly slams into the solar defense fleet and is obliterated. Also, the Planet Killer is a chump, it was killed by light cruisers the first time around.

And the Ad Mech's entire Mars-based military might was bypassed by 5 Necron light cruisers too They didn't manage to kill them all off until after one had actually managed to set down on Mars, through some of the most UBER planetary defenses in the Imperium.

Never underestimate light ships





It's one of the classic blunders. Right after 'never get involved in a land war in asia...'






It helps if you can bring along some ships with REALLY awesome guns though

Based on modern scientific knowledge and theory., bigger ships would always be better in space. 40k follows the "Space is an Ocean" trope very closely, as a result their large vessels are slow behemoths and smaller ships can dart around them like wasps.

Kain wrote:

LoneLictor wrote:

Kain wrote:

LoneLictor wrote:I think they could advance the story without getting rid of any armies. It's simple really.

1. Abaddon's 13th Black Crusade proceeds to Terra and kills the Emp.
2. Astronomicon goes down. Imperium splinters into lots of angry Empires, some larger than others.
3. Hive Fleet Leviathan is still fighting the Orks.
4. Abaddon, about to consolidate his reign, is attacked by lots and lots o' Necrons. Big war between Chaos and Necrons begin.

Some fans would be pissed off that the Emperor died and the Imperium was hurt, but they could still play their old armies. The Space Marines and Imperial Guard and Sisters of Battle and Grey Knights would probably survive, with some maybe starting their own Empires and others seeking vengeance against the Black Legion and others seeking just to protect what's left.

EDIT: Hey, my 1300th post is about the 13th Black Crusade.

Abaddon is not going to get near Terra. He doesn't have the manpower or the resources to make a dent in the Solar defense force (the forces of Chaos will always and have always been outnumbered by the IoM by a massive margin, it's always just been a matter of the loyalist's getting their forces there) which have gotten even bigger than they were in the heresy. The only faction with enough power to do that would be unified orks, unified necrons, or an entire hive fleet on the scale of leviathan flinging itself at just the solar system. Out of this, only the Tyranids are likely to do this anytime soon within the canon.

The 3rd and 5th ed. Chaos Codexs say that once Abaddon gets past Cadia that Terra is doomed. And now Abaddon has THREE spaceships that can blow up planets in one hit. It isn't a stretch to say he could reach Terra.

Before the other three doom of all factions that are all far more numerous? Unlikely. If he tried, knowing Warhammer, he'd end up bumping into a hive fleet and his entire crusade would be slaughtered to a man with only him surviving, running back to the eye of terror with his tail tucked between his legs after getting his terminator plated arse being handed to by xenos. Then the Hive fleet promptly slams into the solar defense fleet and is obliterated. Also, the Planet Killer is a chump, it was killed by light cruisers the first time around.

Well, still the other two planet destroying ships work pretty well. Secondly, the Codexs are canon. They are canon. This means that they are canon. If you disagree with them, they are still canon.

Kain wrote:

LoneLictor wrote:

Kain wrote:

LoneLictor wrote:I think they could advance the story without getting rid of any armies. It's simple really.

1. Abaddon's 13th Black Crusade proceeds to Terra and kills the Emp.
2. Astronomicon goes down. Imperium splinters into lots of angry Empires, some larger than others.
3. Hive Fleet Leviathan is still fighting the Orks.
4. Abaddon, about to consolidate his reign, is attacked by lots and lots o' Necrons. Big war between Chaos and Necrons begin.

Some fans would be pissed off that the Emperor died and the Imperium was hurt, but they could still play their old armies. The Space Marines and Imperial Guard and Sisters of Battle and Grey Knights would probably survive, with some maybe starting their own Empires and others seeking vengeance against the Black Legion and others seeking just to protect what's left.

EDIT: Hey, my 1300th post is about the 13th Black Crusade.

Abaddon is not going to get near Terra. He doesn't have the manpower or the resources to make a dent in the Solar defense force (the forces of Chaos will always and have always been outnumbered by the IoM by a massive margin, it's always just been a matter of the loyalist's getting their forces there) which have gotten even bigger than they were in the heresy. The only faction with enough power to do that would be unified orks, unified necrons, or an entire hive fleet on the scale of leviathan flinging itself at just the solar system. Out of this, only the Tyranids are likely to do this anytime soon within the canon.

The 3rd and 5th ed. Chaos Codexs say that once Abaddon gets past Cadia that Terra is doomed. And now Abaddon has THREE spaceships that can blow up planets in one hit. It isn't a stretch to say he could reach Terra.

Before the other three doom of all factions that are all far more numerous? Unlikely. If he tried, knowing Warhammer, he'd end up bumping into a hive fleet and his entire crusade would be slaughtered to a man with only him surviving, running back to the eye of terror with his tail tucked between his legs after getting his terminator plated arse being handed to by xenos. Then the Hive fleet promptly slams into the solar defense fleet and is obliterated. Also, the Planet Killer is a chump, it was killed by light cruisers the first time around.

Numerous? Abaddon is the only commander with access to literally unlimited troops as long as the gods feel like sending them to him. I kind of get the feeling that you don't like Abaddon much, but the official GW canon puts him as the foremost threat to the Imperium and one of the most dangerous individuals in the galaxy. There's a reason why Cadia was the single most reinforced planet in the Imperium short of Terra.

Durza wrote:

Kain wrote:

LoneLictor wrote:

Kain wrote:

LoneLictor wrote:I think they could advance the story without getting rid of any armies. It's simple really.

1. Abaddon's 13th Black Crusade proceeds to Terra and kills the Emp.
2. Astronomicon goes down. Imperium splinters into lots of angry Empires, some larger than others.
3. Hive Fleet Leviathan is still fighting the Orks.
4. Abaddon, about to consolidate his reign, is attacked by lots and lots o' Necrons. Big war between Chaos and Necrons begin.

Some fans would be pissed off that the Emperor died and the Imperium was hurt, but they could still play their old armies. The Space Marines and Imperial Guard and Sisters of Battle and Grey Knights would probably survive, with some maybe starting their own Empires and others seeking vengeance against the Black Legion and others seeking just to protect what's left.

EDIT: Hey, my 1300th post is about the 13th Black Crusade.

Abaddon is not going to get near Terra. He doesn't have the manpower or the resources to make a dent in the Solar defense force (the forces of Chaos will always and have always been outnumbered by the IoM by a massive margin, it's always just been a matter of the loyalist's getting their forces there) which have gotten even bigger than they were in the heresy. The only faction with enough power to do that would be unified orks, unified necrons, or an entire hive fleet on the scale of leviathan flinging itself at just the solar system. Out of this, only the Tyranids are likely to do this anytime soon within the canon.

The 3rd and 5th ed. Chaos Codexs say that once Abaddon gets past Cadia that Terra is doomed. And now Abaddon has THREE spaceships that can blow up planets in one hit. It isn't a stretch to say he could reach Terra.

Before the other three doom of all factions that are all far more numerous? Unlikely. If he tried, knowing Warhammer, he'd end up bumping into a hive fleet and his entire crusade would be slaughtered to a man with only him surviving, running back to the eye of terror with his tail tucked between his legs after getting his terminator plated arse being handed to by xenos. Then the Hive fleet promptly slams into the solar defense fleet and is obliterated. Also, the Planet Killer is a chump, it was killed by light cruisers the first time around.

Numerous? Abaddon is the only commander with access to literally unlimited troops as long as the gods feel like sending them to him. I kind of get the feeling that you don't like Abaddon much, but the official GW canon puts him as the foremost threat to the Imperium and one of the most dangerous individuals in the galaxy. There's a reason why Cadia was the single most reinforced planet in the Imperium short of Terra.

I do not dislike Abaddon per se (though I call his hair style into question) but I am rather skeptical that he's really that big of a threat when his forces are stated in the 4e CSM codex as having problems focusing on a black crusade before breaking off to pursue their own agendas. Additionally, Daemons, except under very unusual circumstances, require mortal servants to enter the Materium. And it goes without saying that there are definitely more Imperial loyalists than chaos followers. The followers of Chaos have the disadvantage of that pretty much everyone besides the Eldar and possibly the Tau outnumber them, hence why Chaos tends to lose most times when it's forced into a war of attrition.

That's not to say that Chaos isn't devastating when it has the initiative. Most engagements with Chaos have them rampaging with wild abandon on the offensive. But when the Imperium seizes it back, Chaos has been rolled back virtually every single time. In the sabbat worlds, Chaos seized the sector rather easily, but the Imperium's response ended up crushing them after two decades or so despite the fact that the Chaos Gods were so invested in it that Khorne himself allowed psykers dedicated to him (The gore mages.)

In Aurelia, again when the Black Legion came in force they were wrecking face all over the place, but when the Imperials got into gear, virtually the entire grand company of Araghast was lost and Ulkair got banished. True, the forces of Chaos continued to be a problem, but going by Space Marine suggesting that the Blood Ravens campaign is canon, it's mainly because the Alpha Legion largely took over the operations of Chaos in the subsector, and the fact that the Orks, Tyranids, and Eldar never stopped being a problem either.

In Armageddon, we have a space hulk full of daemons, world eaters, cultists, and Angron himself. They rampage across Armageddon pretty easily, but when the Space Wolves arrived and helped the Imperials set up defenses, by the time Angron attacked again, the World Eaters got their faces wrecked in every location except where Angron lead the attack personally, and even then a hundred grey knights defeated him and broke the back of the entire Chaos attack.

Then there's the dominion of fire campaign, again, Angron charges headlong out of the warp with a horde of Khornates, he ravages hundreds of worlds but once the Imperials organized a counteroffensive, Angron was once again defeated. Pretty much every major chaos incursion eventually crumbled when met with an Imperial counteroffensive because the Imperials could bring so much more men and material to the fight.

And let's not forget that while Abaddon won on the ground (if only marginally), he decisively lost in space and the Imperials have unquestionable space superiority in the thirteenth black crusade. Without space superiority, Abaddon isn't really going to get very far and the Imperials aren't going to lose that advantage any time soon.

As for the quibble about the Imperium being doomed if Abaddon breaks out of Cadia. Every Tyranid codex ever has said that everyone else is doomed once the main body of the Tyranids arrive. The oldcron codex said that everyone was doomed when they woke up. The Newcron codex says everyone else is doomed if they wake up and unite. Every single ork codex says that everyone is doomed if they ever unite. The Black Templar codex says that their foes would be doomed if they ever gathered in one place.

Abaddon has a lot of people to get in line behind. And while the daemons are functionally infinite in number in the warp, there is an always has been a practical upper limit to how many you can summon without having the entire place partially in the warp. Otherwise Chaos would have won every time they could summon daemons. That and you never quite hear about masses of daemons so thick that you don't even have to aim to hit one like you do with the Orks or Tyranids.

Then there's the fact that the Imperium considers that the only way for them to have even the slimmest chance of surviving the Tyranids is the functional equivalent of giving every single man, woman, and child a lasgun and flak armour and having their entire industrial output shifted towards building only what is needed for war and hoping for the best. They don't give this same threat level to anyone else but the Tyranids. Not the Orks, not the Necrons (though this is often implied to be caused more by their ignorance of the true scale of the Necrons than anything else), not Chaos, not the Eldar, not the Dark Eldar, not the Tau, nor any of a host of other Xenos and warp monsters.

The Tyranid codex also states that if the warring civilizations of the galaxy do not unite against this new threat, then everyone is doomed. This likely also includes Chaos. So already the Tyranids look like a better candidate through sheer ability to wage war than Chaos to break the defenses of Terra, and even then, we had a whole thread on how even the Tyranids would find assaulting Terra to be a massively difficult task.

Going by the codexes and fluff portrayal, the Tyranids are a bigger threat overall than Chaos. Chaos is heavily reliant on it's mortal followers, who are outnumbered by most every other faction and are if anything, even less united than the powers they serve. The Tyranids don't quite have that limitation, they outnumber everyone in the galaxy combined with the rather arguable exception of the Orks and the very arguable exception of the Necrons.

The Tyranids are just more likely to get there first and have the weight of numbers and the firepower needed to crack the toughest nut in the entire galaxy.

THEY ALL BECOME FRIENDS

Ascalam wrote:Given that GW is English, unlikely...

please explain this comment it is really quite perplexing. Since when does being based in any country dictate whether or not plot is resolved or advanced?

Amaya wrote:Only way the story will change is if Obama takes over GW.

The comment was in response to this comment, directly above it, which you seem to have missed

Obama would be unlikely to take over GW, as GW is English.

Asherian Command wrote:
Then the enslavers come back.
Hahaha. No more nids -.-

What makes you say that AC?

Nowhere.

40k is a setting, not a narrative.

Henners91 wrote:Nowhere.

40k is a setting, not a narrative.

Yep. There's your answer.