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ObliviousBlueCaboose wrote:

Tadashi wrote:

ObliviousBlueCaboose wrote:Space marines would have no character. The audience would have no empathy. All the show would be is action. No character development. No intregue. Nothing worth watching.

I could say the same for Guardsmen - it'd be like watching Soviet/Nazi propaganda. Bash the Astartes, and I'll bash the Guard, .

Can't help if giants who have no emotions are something I can't feel empathy towards. On the other hand a show about a guardsman is something I can feel empathy for.

Tell you what, I'll 'defect' to the Imperial Guard if you can prove to me that Imperial Guardsmen alone can defeat Angron and his army of World Eaters and daemons on their own. Prove to me that a single Guardsman can banish that Greater Daemon of Tzeentch that Captain Stern outsmarted and banished multiple times. Prove to me they can defeat Eldar/Necrons/Tyranids on their own. Until then, watch your tongue, and show respect. Accept the fact that Astartes and Guardsmen are interdependent, and the Imperium cannot survive without the other.

ObliviousBlueCaboose wrote:

Tadashi wrote:

ObliviousBlueCaboose wrote:Space marines would have no character. The audience would have no empathy. All the show would be is action. No character development. No intregue. Nothing worth watching.

I could say the same for Guardsmen - it'd be like watching Soviet/Nazi propaganda. Bash the Astartes, and I'll bash the Guard, .

Can't help if giants who have no emotions are something I can't feel empathy towards. On the other hand a show about a guardsman is something I can feel empathy for.

If Sms didn't have feelings, there wouldn't have been a heresy. Salamander and Space Wolves both show high regards toward regular humans.

WetAndCold wrote:I think a HBO mini series based on an imperial guard regiment that's similar to our military would work well. This would create better empathy with a wider audience.

This, something like Ciaphas Cain would work pretty well, something grimdark or centered on space marines might turn off larger audiences.

Buttons wrote:

WetAndCold wrote:I think a HBO mini series based on an imperial guard regiment that's similar to our military would work well. This would create better empathy with a wider audience.

This, something like Ciaphas Cain would work pretty well, something grimdark or centered on space marines might turn off larger audiences.

Ciaphas Cain would be hilarious IRL.

Buttons wrote:

WetAndCold wrote:I think a HBO mini series based on an imperial guard regiment that's similar to our military would work well. This would create better empathy with a wider audience.

This, something like Ciaphas Cain would work pretty well, something grimdark or centered on space marines might turn off larger audiences.

I am inclined to agree...although this could raise a backlash in the UK, since Cain is Blackadder in Space, and the British might accuse the producers of stealing their idea.

The Battle of Calth would make a great film. It's very cinematic.

Before anyone attempts to make any sort of movie or show they would need to redesign all the major factions gear so that it doesn't look laughable at normal scale. The models we are used to using at at mixed scales for the heads, arms, and body so when made normal size it doesn't look right at all.

That being said, of course a Showtime/HBO/etc. show would be great, although being centered around Guard, or even some hive world inhabitants would need to be the focus since it needs to appeal to a wider audience than just 40k fans and the perspective of a SM would just be too much of a jump to get people to start watching.

How about a film based on an Eldar Autarch, or Sister of Battle for a change?

Here's an idea. We've all heard of the fanfic Love Can Bloom - using that as a base, how about a forbidden affair between an Ulthwe Farseer (not necessarily Taldeer) and a Vindicare Assassin but set during the 13th Black Crusade. They're torn between each other and their duty to their respective races, and to make manners just right, they're discovered, and are being hunted by the Farseer's twin, an Autarch, as well as a Champion of Chaos who possesses a prophecy with the two at the core. To make it even nicer, the Inquisition has a copy of the same prophecy, and send one of their own to ensure the Imperium's interests.

Tadashi wrote:

ObliviousBlueCaboose wrote:

Tadashi wrote:

ObliviousBlueCaboose wrote:Space marines would have no character. The audience would have no empathy. All the show would be is action. No character development. No intregue. Nothing worth watching.

I could say the same for Guardsmen - it'd be like watching Soviet/Nazi propaganda. Bash the Astartes, and I'll bash the Guard, .

Can't help if giants who have no emotions are something I can't feel empathy towards. On the other hand a show about a guardsman is something I can feel empathy for.

Tell you what, I'll 'defect' to the Imperial Guard if you can prove to me that Imperial Guardsmen alone can defeat Angron and his army of World Eaters and daemons on their own. Prove to me that a single Guardsman can banish that Greater Daemon of Tzeentch that Captain Stern outsmarted and banished multiple times. Prove to me they can defeat Eldar/Necrons/Tyranids on their own. Until then, watch your tongue, and show respect. Accept the fact that Astartes and Guardsmen are interdependent, and the Imperium cannot survive without the other.

This, the Astartes well recognize they would never be able to defend the entire Imperium with out the Imperial Guard. You will almost always see Space Marines working with Imperial Guardsmen, it is seldom they operate with out support.

Tadashi wrote:

ObliviousBlueCaboose wrote:

Tadashi wrote:

ObliviousBlueCaboose wrote:Space marines would have no character. The audience would have no empathy. All the show would be is action. No character development. No intregue. Nothing worth watching.

I could say the same for Guardsmen - it'd be like watching Soviet/Nazi propaganda. Bash the Astartes, and I'll bash the Guard, .

Can't help if giants who have no emotions are something I can't feel empathy towards. On the other hand a show about a guardsman is something I can feel empathy for.

Tell you what, I'll 'defect' to the Imperial Guard if you can prove to me that Imperial Guardsmen alone can defeat Angron and his army of World Eaters and daemons on their own. Prove to me that a single Guardsman can banish that Greater Daemon of Tzeentch that Captain Stern outsmarted and banished multiple times. Prove to me they can defeat Eldar/Necrons/Tyranids on their own. Until then, watch your tongue, and show respect. Accept the fact that Astartes and Guardsmen are interdependent, and the Imperium cannot survive without the other.

The Imperial Guard routinely defeats Eldar, Dark Eldar, Tyranids, and Orks, Deamons, CHAOS Marines Tau on their own. As for necrons the older fluff in the novels is that no one really beats necrons.

The Imperial Guard can and will kill Deamon princes. On their own deamon world made all the more heroic due to it being standard humans. Granted an Entire regiment landed and there was only two survivors.

The IoM would utterly fail without the Imperial Guard. They, unlike the space marines have the numbers to hold the line. They can also perform the high risk missions the space marines do, only with a lot more deaths due to the lack of plot armor. So the space marines are a cool but at only a million members they are a limited force. Fighting in maybe .0001% of the battles.

Don't forget who save ultramar.

@Tadashi

Saying that you can't empathise with giant super-warriors who achieve feats of heroism beyond any human capacity is not bashing them. Really. It really isn't. All the best stories have characters with human failings. The relatable nature of it helps draw the viewer in. I'm not saying it's not possible to find a Space Marine character compelling, just that it's perfectly just to find Marines difficult to empathise with.

ObliviousBlueCaboose wrote:

Tadashi wrote:

ObliviousBlueCaboose wrote:

Tadashi wrote:

ObliviousBlueCaboose wrote:Space marines would have no character. The audience would have no empathy. All the show would be is action. No character development. No intregue. Nothing worth watching.

I could say the same for Guardsmen - it'd be like watching Soviet/Nazi propaganda. Bash the Astartes, and I'll bash the Guard, .

Can't help if giants who have no emotions are something I can't feel empathy towards. On the other hand a show about a guardsman is something I can feel empathy for.

Tell you what, I'll 'defect' to the Imperial Guard if you can prove to me that Imperial Guardsmen alone can defeat Angron and his army of World Eaters and daemons on their own. Prove to me that a single Guardsman can banish that Greater Daemon of Tzeentch that Captain Stern outsmarted and banished multiple times. Prove to me they can defeat Eldar/Necrons/Tyranids on their own. Until then, watch your tongue, and show respect. Accept the fact that Astartes and Guardsmen are interdependent, and the Imperium cannot survive without the other.

The Imperial Guard routinely defeats Eldar, Dark Eldar, Tyranids, and Orks, Deamons, CHAOS Marines Tau on their own. As for necrons the older fluff in the novels is that no one really beats necrons.

The Imperial Guard can and will kill Deamon princes. On their own deamon world made all the more heroic due to it being standard humans. Granted an Entire regiment landed and there was only two survivors.

The IoM would utterly fail without the Imperial Guard. They, unlike the space marines have the numbers to hold the line. They can also perform the high risk missions the space marines do, only with a lot more deaths due to the lack of plot armor. So the space marines are a cool but at only a million members they are a limited force. Fighting in maybe .0001% of the battles.

Don't forget who save ultramar.

An Imperial Navy battleship flying headlong into a hive fleet and blowing itself up.

The Guard would flounder uselessly without the Navy. The entirety of the Imperium is interdependent upon one another, which is what Guilliman wanted so that if the gak hit the fan once again the damage would be minimized. If you remove one element, the others crumble. The astartes are far and away the ones with the best track records against Daemons (the exorists and grey knights in particular) asking you average navy man to board most xenos ships is asking them to get slaughtered and then their ship get overrun. Without the Guard, the Imperium would be reduced to Chapter Worlds and planets defended by the AdMech, Ecclesiarchy, or worlds with unusually good PDFs. Without the Navy the Imperium would be at the mercy of everyone else, and again, only those with fleets of their own would survive. Without the Defense forces, the response forces would be stretched thin trying to defend and there would be no such thing as aiding a defense, only reclaiming a world.

Without the Arbites, the Imperium would collapse into lawlessness and it'd be game over. Without the Astra Telepathica the Imperium collapses as there's no FTL communication. Without the Ecclesiarchy, you'd have Genestealer and Chaos cults going completely out of control left right and center. Without the Navis Nobilltae, the Imperium collapses as no one can get anywhere anytime soon. Without the Administratum, everyone would collapse upon one another with ceaseless arguing and nothing would get done. Without the Assassinorium, powerful enemies who would have otherwise crippled the Imperium were it not for their work, would become very potent menaces and rampage through the Imperium. Without the inquisition, the hidden threats to the Imperium would be unstoppable and cut straight through it like butter. And without the AdMech, arguably the most crucial piece in the entire puzzle, the Imperium would collapse period as they'd have absolutely nothing to do anything.

The don't forget who saved ultramar was in reference to standard humans saving the home world of the most powerful chapter in the IoM.

Enough with arguing over who can beat whom in the IoM. All the sides, as stated before, can kick and are designed to do different things.

can we get back on topic here?

Personally, I think something like helsreach or rynn's world would work, because it has both the space marines, the PDF and the guard all working together to help defend their world. They provide enough of a fight to last months. The Space marines and the Guard/PDF have human characteristics and can kick arse. Granted both show more of the space marines because they are space marine battle novels.

Another thing I would like to see is something like Cadian Blood, where the space marines are all cannon fodder and some guardsmen can hold the line against the Deathguard.

I'm a script writer for the film, television and video game industry and I've been adapting the Horus Heresy saga for over 6 years.

My trilogy goes through The end of The Great Crusade, The Heresy (When Horus fell up until the The Istvaan Drop Site Massacre) and the Siege of Terra.

I've been loathe to cut stuff, but it has had to be done. I've had to use a fair amount of Montages to give the impression of a galactic wide conflict.

It's forming a large part of my thesis into writing trilogies for hollywood.

I'll tell you now though... It's a ballache, adapting a story you love so much, into a movie or three movies that may last between 150 and 200 pages (minutes) each.

I'm at 602 pages and I've still not finished cutting bits down.

Maybe it would be better as a 4 parter.

The second Golden Rule of trilogies:

2) The trilogy must be 3 parts, no more, no less.

Stories are based on a three act structure, four parts would ruin it.

Yeah, but it wouldn't have the be a trilogy

I think there is just too much material to adaquately cover if you limit yourself to 3 movies. I think a series of 4-6 movies would cover it better.

I personally believe a 6 part mini series would work better. Six parts as a film series does work (Harry Potter and Twishite for example), but Hollywood is cutting cost right now. Not much money in the pot for new ideas and new directors.

It's all about experience, thats where the money is. Why give a inexperienced director with no background $200 Million, where as the Film Distributors can give someone like Michael Bay $200 million and he'll make £1 Billion in profit.

Thats trhe problem with Hollywood I'm afraid. The best we will get is the Animated 40K films like Ultramarines.

So if I become a billionaire I'll pay for everything and we can have a six part mini series. You can hold me too it.

ObliviousBlueCaboose wrote:So if I become a billionaire I'll pay for everything and we can have a six part mini series. You can hold me too it.

You better, because it'll be permenately engraved in my sig.

It's a good thing I'm an ethical business person. I don't believe in getting paid more than I'm owed or earned.

The three guys who wrote Revenge of the Fallen, got paid $8 million each. That is the single most expensive script ever written. It personally makes me sick that they got that much for that pile of gakk.

You can't afford to have principles in hollyweird (or any country's motion picture industry).
You can't eat them and they won't keep you warm.

I believe it was Harlan Ellison who had the principle of meeting the buyer at the state line (you never enter PRC if you can avoid it), you push your story over the line with a stick. They throw you a case full of money.

You go your separate ways with your trades.