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Feth sake, it was the Ork equivalent of th Emperor, not some random warboss, by going your way, a Commissar would beat the Emperor because Yarrick butchered a Warboss despite losing his arm.

Number of people who remember the story: Lots
Number of people who know how orks work: Apparently not many.

Let's put this into context: This "Ork that nearly killed the Emperor" was:

A) The size of a tank.
B) The head of THE LARGEST WAAGH! IN HISTORY. The Waagh! energy backing him and all the other Boyz would have been monstrous. Calling him "A random Ork" is utterly ridiculous, and completely illogical.

I agree, and quoting a previous post, the primarchs are a dilution of the Emporer's gene-seed, Horus would have killed the Emporer and technically did(Golden Throne seating a skeleton/Emporer)
The Emporer is more of a pysker than anything and should be good but not exceptional in combat, but able to take on an Ork Warboss because he IS the Emporer!

.....

These rules are really reasonable... probably far too conservative for most of the stats actually. I'd probably add +1 to pretty much everything personally, but this would actually be pretty fun to play against.

liquidjoshi wrote:Let's put this into context: This "Ork that nearly killed the Emperor" was:

A) The size of a tank.
B) The head of THE LARGEST WAAGH! IN HISTORY. The Waagh! energy backing him and all the other Boyz would have been monstrous. Calling him "A random Ork" is utterly ridiculous, and completely illogical.

Here's the problem with that in this scope. The Primarch standing next to the Emperor had no problems murdering this Ork. Only the Emperor did.

A small child need not expend effort to lift a weight whose mass is negated by larger powers, what's your point?

I love these rules for the Emperor.

People seem to think that the Emperor is this omnipotent God even though we have conflicting reports within the Imperium itself of his capabilities. Some Space Marine chapters have even said that he wasn't a God, but still one of the greatest men that ever lived. People seem to think that every Imperial story about the Emperor is absolutely, one-hundred percent true when most of us know that the Imperium tends to exaggerate greatly about certain things (especially anything pertaining to the Emperor).

Think of it this way: if you're a normal human and not a Space Marine or the member of the Adeptus Mechanicus and are required to believe in the religion of the God Emperor, are you really going to go around saying things that would contradict him being a God? Of course not.

Is he a God amongst Men due to his abilities? Sure, but look at the average Guardsmen statline. Was he the strongest human psyker ever known? Sure and that's probably where the bulk of his power came from.

Was he a warp-based incarnation of war or bloodshed like an Avatar or Khaine or a Bloodthirster? No. Did he have more wounds than a creature of Nurgle? No.

We need to remember that the vast majority of lore in 40k is written from an Imperial standpoint and, thus, we can assume it's going to be full of half-truths, outright lies, and heavy exaggerations (we as a species even today tend to do this quite a bit in regards to stories and legends we've heard).

Marik Law wrote:
Was he a warp-based incarnation of war or bloodshed like an Avatar or Khaine or a Bloodthirster? No. Did he have more wounds than a creature of Nurgle? No.

No, but at the same time he was psychicly powerful enough to mind-beam Horus to the point where the Chaos Gods turned tail and ran away, leaving Horus to be FREEM!'d by said mind-beam. He may not have as many wound as a Great Unclean One or the martial prowess of an Avatar or a Bloodthirster, but he should still be way harder to kill than any of those, for obvious reasons.

He's more powerful than most primarch who: broke the spine of a Bloodthirster and punched out an Avatar, so yes, I think he could beat either.

NeoAigaion wrote:The Emperor, powerful as he was, almost died getting choked by an Ork

Thats heresy!

If you are suggesting the ullanor crusade then : http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Ullanor_Crusade#.T90h43UZneA

AlmightyWalrus wrote:No, but at the same time he was psychicly powerful enough to mind-beam Horus to the point where the Chaos Gods turned tail and ran away, leaving Horus to be FREEM!'d by said mind-beam. He may not have as many wound as a Great Unclean One or the martial prowess of an Avatar or a Bloodthirster, but he should still be way harder to kill than any of those, for obvious reasons.

The Emperor is a walking antithesis to daemonkind and it was said more than once that Horus, instead of remaining impartial to the Chaos powers, was tempted by one of them (never mentioned which) and that he had started to accept daemonic power, which allowed the Emperor to fry him. Abbadon raves about it all the time, that if Horus hadn't given in to temptation and pride that the traitor forces would have overthrown the Emperor. We need to remember that Horus was standing toe-to-toe with the Emperor, if not besting him, and the Emperor's only option was to obliterate Horus' daemon-corrupted soul (something he didn't want to have to do, but Horus left him no choice). In my mind, reading the lore, the Primarchs were the Emperor's physical equals, but none of them could match his immense psychic power.

Bobthehero wrote:He's more powerful than most primarch who: broke the spine of a Bloodthirster and punched out an Avatar, so yes, I think he could beat either.

Again, the lore is primarily from an Imperial standpoint, so how much of that is exaggeration or outright fiction? We simply don't know, but I'm inclined to think a good chunk of what is said is highly exaggerated. Think about it this way (this is only an example, I'm not saying this happened or anything): if you're a Space Marine watching this and your Primarch is getting his butt handed to him by some unholy creature and only wins the fight out of sheer, blind luck, are you really going to diminish the name of your Primarch by saying he got slapped around by a daemon and almost died, or are you going to say that he trounced the daemon and pulled a Bane vs Batman on him?


EDIT: On a site note I hope the rumours about Forge World's upcoming books being about the Horus Heresy are true.

Love it, the Emperor is not Fearless xD

Marik Law wrote:
Again, the lore is primarily from an Imperial standpoint, so how much of that is exaggeration or outright fiction? We simply don't know, but I'm inclined to think a good chunk of what is said is highly exaggerated. Think about it this way (this is only an example, I'm not saying this happened or anything): if you're a Space Marine watching this and your Primarch is getting his butt handed to him by some unholy creature and only wins the fight out of sheer, blind luck, are you really going to diminish the name of your Primarch by saying he got slapped around by a daemon and almost died, or are you going to say that he trounced the daemon and pulled a Bane vs Batman on him?

The lore's never been that Sanguinius curbstomped Ka'Bandha, just that it ended with him breaking Ka'Bandha's back.

I find the "oh it's just Imperial propaganda" argument silly. What's the point in discussing fluff if anything that favours the Imperium can simply be hand-waved away like that?