Do you think buying used models off eBay is the partial cause of continuous price hikes?

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**Brother Axel**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Kal-El wrote:Do you think buying used models off eBay is the partial cause of continuous price hikes?

No.

This.

eBay serves me well... Very well in fact, but sometimes there's just something about going down to my local GW and buying something new in the box and having a chat with one of the store assistants. Maybe that's just me though.

**Rayvon**

Lanrak wrote:HI Rayvon.
Yes all companies raise retail prices to cover increased costs, and usualy raise prices at the rate of inflation.

Back in the 1990s, GW had a range of games suiteable for a wide range of gamers of all ages and ability.

Space Crusade,Advanced Space Crusade, Space Hulk,(Confrontation) Necromundia,40k 2nd ed, Epic Space Marine, (Space Fleet)BFG, just in the 40k universe!

So gamers could hapily migreate across game types while keeping withing GW sphere of influence.
Each game was focused on its own game play.

As a result of this raft of great games GW became very popular and had to expand its retail chain to cope with demand.(Turn over doubled every 3 years from 1987 to 1997!)

GW plc didnt double prices every 3 years , so this was actual growth in customer base.

Since 2004 , GW plc have increased prices over infaltion year on year, resulting in a near doubling of prices over the rate of inflation.

Yet they have lost over 30% of turn over EXCLUDING the price increases.

All the price rises have done over the last 8 years is compensate for falling sales volumes.(Eg fewer customers and/or customers buying less.)

So basicaly GW plc is selling half the amount of stuff at twice the price it used to be.

And as the prices get higher the more people will fail to start/or quit .So the price rises get steeper , and the turn over declines as the sales volumes fail to compensate..(Like last years report showed.)

So GW plc will be around for a bit longer.As long as those parents of little 'Timmy' dont have internet acess to see the wide variety of alternative games that cost loads less....

Not sure why this was aimed at me, i dont really care, I like GW products more than other games systems and i will continue to buy them, hell i only posted to show my opinion and say that GW are going nowhere anytime soon.

**ÆΞØИ**

I'll be blunt OP.
GW will increase the price if:

Economy gets worse.
Economy gets better.
Materials gets cheaper.
Material gets expensive.
Sales goes up.
Sales goes down.
World ends in 2012
2nd coming of Jesus.

**English Assassin**

Like most other respondents, I'm inclined to see the causal relationship the other way around: I wouldn't waste time scouring eBay or ordering from Maelstrom/Dark Sphere if I didn't consider the prices GW charge to have risen beyond the point of being reasonable. There is of course, an element of feedback to this: as GW's sales drop thanks to the secondhand market, so they raise prices to maintain their profitability.

Moreover, it's GW's reliance on "little Timmy", who customarily gets bored with the hobby within a year or so, and hocks his miniatures on eBay, which keeps the secondhand market so well stocked and (comparatively) cheap.

What is interesting is that there must be a practical ceiling to customer tolerance of continual above-inflation (and above-market) price hikes. One wonders when GW will hit that ceiling, and what will happen then?

**Capt. Camping**

I dont thing so, many people like to buy stuff new sealed, just like the scale model guys. They like to smell the content inside the box, haaa! that smell of fresh new plastics.

Sometimes there are some ebay offers that looks very promising and money saving. For example if you like metal HQs, since all are being replaced by "Failcast", you can go to ebay and get some.

**Vulcan**

azazel the cat wrote:"Good profit" that does not equate to "exponential profit" or "profit growth" is something that publicly-traded companies are afraid of. It's not enough to merely make a profit; they have to constantly expand
the business, or else investors will see that their investment is not accumulating capital gains, and thus sell off the stock, which will in turn decrease the value of the stock, and harm the company.

Thus the reason the economy's going into the toilet all over... but that's a whole different subject.

**Howard A Treesong**

A secondhand market exists for pretty much everything but I don't see many things showing equivalent price increases.

Otherwise the 2nd book market would have killed publishing decades ago, yet many books are reprinted time and again regardless of the number of easily available cheap copies around.

**Some_Call_Me_Tim?**

TedNugent wrote:Huh?

The laws of supply and demand say that say that the less demand there is for GWs product, the more supply they have, and hence the lower the price they should be forced to sell at.

e.g. buying from alternative retailers/game systems/buying on the secondhand market should force a price reduction, whereas continually buying off the GW store should encourage further price increases.

The fundamental laws of economics do not apply to GW.

~Tim?

**A Town Called Malus**

Some_Call_Me_Tim? wrote:
TedNugent wrote:Huh?

The laws of supply and demand say that say that the less demand there is for GWs product, the more supply they have, and hence the lower the price they should be forced to sell at.

e.g. buying from alternative retailers/game systems/buying on the secondhand market should force a price reduction, whereas continually buying off the GW store should encourage further price increases.

The fundamental laws of economics do not apply to GW.

~Tim?

To be fair, economics doesn't really have any fundamental laws. It's all just made up to make us think little bits of paper are worth something as opposed to sheep or coloured beads.

**angel of ecstasy**

Brother Axel wrote:...but sometimes there's just something about going down to my local GW and buying something new in the box and having a chat with one of the store assistants. Maybe that's just me though.

No, that is not just you. I believe this is the main reason people buy from GW stores. At least it's the reason I buy from there at times.

Edit: Mostly to chat with the bewitchingly beautiful store manager

**Skinnereal**

My Eldar rely on lots of plastic kits, and Ebay isn't too got at them.
The BNIB kits are often sold for more than retail, and the used kits will be difficult to strip down.

As for metal kits and models, they're easier to strip. Re-use value is better, so there are lots of older models for sale.

So, as GW moves to Finecast and brings out more plastic, my options on Ebay drop, and I'm forced to buy direct to from resellers.

**poda_t**

Well, it's the price increases that see me going to ebay, so i think you have your cause and effect mixed up there.

**Frazzled**

Kal-El wrote:Hmmm maybe? What's your thoughts? Why by something for retail when you can get cheaper or 20% off which is a lot of opinions and mine mostly. Is this actually hurting us?

That violates fundamental rules of economics.

**poda_t**

Frazzled wrote:
Kal-El wrote:Hmmm maybe? What's your thoughts? Why by something for retail when you can get cheaper or 20% off which is a lot of opinions and mine mostly. Is this actually hurting us?

That violates fundamental rules of economics.

could you perhaps give us a little more insight frazzled? While I've developed the means of comprehending you I'm not sure which part of the statment you are refuting.

**The Sarducci**

I support my FLGS very much, and GW is discounted. There is also a thriving used model/bits in the store. I used to go to eBay and cons for rare models, but now I also go for metal models instead of finecast when unavailable locally. Over the years GW has stopped the bitz wagon, rarely does any conventions, and greatly reduced mail order/catelog options. If GW makes it hard for me to buy their models and parts even at full price, how can I not go to eBay.

**Frazzled**

poda_t wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
Kal-El wrote:Hmmm maybe? What's your thoughts? Why by something for retail when you can get cheaper or 20% off which is a lot of opinions and mine mostly. Is this actually hurting us?

That violates fundamental rules of economics.

could you perhaps give us a little more insight frazzled? While I've developed the means of comprehending you I'm not sure which part of the statment you are refuting.

if EBAY sales are material then that is increased competition for the available market share. To maintain profitability a company has to reduce prices to compete or improve the product. Raising the prices for the same minis is contraindicated as the competition (in this case EBAY) will increas market share, thus hurting GW as diseconomies of scale kick in creating a loop of both reduced margins and reduced revenues.
EDIT: GW could attempt to compete on the Mercedes model, offering fewer models at higher margin. That however, requires a non commodity high value added product. In this instance, their product is no higher value than what it was pre EBAY sales.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

A Town Called Malus wrote:
Some_Call_Me_Tim? wrote:
TedNugent wrote:Huh?

The laws of supply and demand say that say that the less demand there is for GWs product, the more supply they have, and hence the lower the price they should be forced to sell at.

e.g. buying from alternative retailers/game systems/buying on the secondhand market should force a price reduction, whereas continually buying off the GW store should encourage further price increases.

The fundamental laws of economics do not apply to GW.

~Tim?

To be fair, economics doesn't really have any fundamental laws. It's all just made up to make us think little bits of paper are worth something as opposed to sheep or coloured beads.

Actually it does. Its a math formula. Its got econ shwag.