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brettz123 wrote:

fullheadofhair wrote:

brettz123 wrote:

lord_blackfang wrote:Simple discounts wouldn't work unless it was really easy to get them deeper than online stores (20-30%), and that's unrealistic. Collecting points for limited edition models would be more attractive, but it's questionable if direct sales would increase enough to cover the costs of sculpting the models.

I actually disagree. Even a 10% discount with their free shipping and really good customer would draw a good number of purchases away from the discount online stores. I think it is a good idea.

And where is your evidence to support that statement? The idea that a company the size of GW hasn't already run the numbers on this and decided against it using some form of data analysis is just not realistic.

The majority of reason to run a discount/ loyalty scheme is to increase sales from existing buyers, attract new customers or take out potential buyers from the competition or drive brand recognition. Ideally the revenue streams of the campaign should exceed what you have spent on the compaign (unless revenue/ market gain isn't the aim of the promotion). It is quite simple to calculate even if based on estimates. It is what marketing people do.

Why does GW need to do that? The market is limited in size, people are relatively ineslastic in their spending habits and the GW philosphy of attracting customers isn't based around price verses say Warmachine models.

Running a program to purchase a limited edition product doesn't make any sense if the people who are going to try and get it would have spent the money anyway.

Half the battle with marketing is targetting your spend NOT at people who would have bought your product anyway. I wouldn;t mind betting that this is the issue that drives GW's lack of serious marketing.

Well obviously JUST LIKE YOU I have no concrete evidence just some common sense and an ability to look at numbers. People are not inelastic in their spending habits (the large drop in GW overall sales wshows you are incorrect). GW is losing customers every year and a loyalty program would help this situation.

Try 5yrs experience working for Kraft in the UK as an accountant working for marketing people and whose job it was to track/ analyse expenditure and measure success of multiple TV, coupon, discount and co-product programs.

A loyalty program works against what seems to be the current GW strategy of high sale price, reduced revenue targetted at a window of 2 maybe 3 years of involvement. A loyalty program in this case will actually reward people who would have bought the product anyway and there is a waste of company money. IT ineffect discounts the sales price of the product. 15+ years ago GW actually used to do stuff like this when you had a discount on the third box of troops you purchased - the reality is most of us needed the third box anyway and would have bought it at a slighly later date and so what purpose did the discount serve or was it just wasted revenue. The skulz idea was definitely fun - the geek in me would love to see what the estimate increase sales v's the cost of running the program was.


What continually surprises me is how many people seem to think that their ideas are a Obvious must do" that GW must not have thought of it. The reality of this is, these ideas have been analysed, projected the effect 5-10 on both P&L and balance sheet and had multiple accountants and dept executives review these workings and see how it works within the overall company strategy.

fullheadofhair wrote:
What continually surprises me is how many people seem to think that their ideas are a Obvious must do" that GW must not have thought of it. The reality of this is, these ideas have been analysed, projected the effect 5-10 on both P&L and balance sheet and had multiple accountants and dept executives review these workings and see how it works within the overall company strategy.

The real question is who is conducting the analyses, etc.? Are these the same folks who do not 'believe' in advertising?

I think that a loyalty program may be more important than ever. In the past, if they had minis that could not sell, they could melt them down and recast them. Now, if they make something that does not sell they are stuck with it. They could use the program to get rid of junk. They could also make it so that it drives purchases. Oh so you play SM, well here is an Eldar Farseer. They could also give you discounts when they know that you already have a sizeable force.

Other companies do not have such programs to lose money. Certain ones, such as Apple do not, but they don't plan on selling you that much stuff. You buy your ipad or mac and you are done. Although I even recall some sort of discount for Apple products to College kids.

spaceelf wrote:

fullheadofhair wrote:
What continually surprises me is how many people seem to think that their ideas are a Obvious must do" that GW must not have thought of it. The reality of this is, these ideas have been analysed, projected the effect 5-10 on both P&L and balance sheet and had multiple accountants and dept executives review these workings and see how it works within the overall company strategy.

The real question is who is conducting the analyses, etc.? Are these the same folks who do not 'believe' in advertising?

I think that a loyalty program may be more important than ever. In the past, if they had minis that could not sell, they could melt them down and recast them. Now, if they make something that does not sell they are stuck with it. They could use the program to get rid of junk. They could also make it so that it drives purchases. Oh so you play SM, well here is an Eldar Farseer. They could also give you discounts when they know that you already have a sizeable force.

Other companies do not have such programs to lose money. Certain ones, such as Apple do not, but they don't plan on selling you that much stuff. You buy your ipad or mac and you are done. Although I even recall some sort of discount for Apple products to College kids.

Apple doesn't often discount because it would be giving to people who would buy the product. The discount to college students makes sense as it a case of grabbing a consumer when they are young and can start down PC route. It is mostly controllable to just college students and not the wider consumer base so marketing budget isn;t wasted on existing customers who would pay full price. And as for don;t sell you much; who else knows people who have upgrade several iphones and ipads and ipods etc.

GW is of the same opinion. We have all heard the "porsche" comment. You don't tend to discount main lines on luxury brands as the manufacturer as it weakens your overall brand message.

GW doesn't believe in advertising because the tried it 15-20yrs ago in the UK and it had zero impact on revenue.

Getting rid of junk might engender good feelings but I don't think it would drive sales. I don't think getting a free farseer is enought to start most people buying a $500 army. Those that want an eldar army would probably buy a farseer anyway so why give it away?

The reality of how marketing works and how we think it works is often substantially different. Similar to how we think IP works and how it actually works in the CH thread.

It is a really strange market, because in other hobbies like video games, paintball, rc vehicles and skating advertising is very important. Could it be that the miniature game industry is down the list? will the loyalty program act like advertising to attract people again?

Capt. Camping wrote:It is a really strange market, because in other hobbies like video games, paintball, rc vehicles and skating advertising is very important. Could it be that the miniature game industry is down the list? will the loyalty program act like advertising to attract people again?

I don't follow, how would it act like advertising?

Attract more people.

Capt. Camping wrote:Attract more people.

Loyalty cards are more about customer retention than customer adoption, but I guess some people who had shied away from it before might be drawn in. Fair enough. I don't think it'd have the brand awareness effect that advertising normally tries to achieve, though.