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TheAngrySquig wrote:Did you even read the OP? Its a BT vehicle they developed from ancient schematics they found, Helbrecht didn't just crap it out one day

I've got a Mental image of a Super human space Marine actually trying to do this

"Push, ahhhhhhhhhhh.........It's Crowning...."

On Topic, the early fluff was so general it means you can back fill. Nothing is impossible, even things that are supposedly set in stone you can argue around it with the whole time-travel and Warping of timelines etc. Only those people who believe the canon 100% would argue against you, and most of those people lack the creative thought and imagination to get the most out of this hobby. Plus the Canon is always changing (case in point the Storm Talon) so if you want to do it make a Pre-heresy Crusader Landraider and say it was a Prototype made on a Forge World in the 30th Millenium as a Prototype but was considered too advanced/ expensive but was kept on as a museum piece but was restored by a bored Techmarine, well you can and well done to you for being different. Bit of imagination and a good story and bingo, instant fluff.

That would be fine, but we are trying to stay as fluffy as possible for the campaign we're doing

Well it's already covered by "Helbrecht discovered an ancient schematics of the design" so basically your home free, it's fine and a good idea, so I would do it. If not discuss it with them, but they should be fine and reasonable about it.

That was my idea, but they are under the impression that its pre Imperial because they seem to think nothing was lost during the HH

Everything was lost in the HH. The whole of the Emperors dream was shattered, even the doctorine of Imperial Truth was shattered with the cult religion of the Emperor being embraced. The whole Galaxy of Man, of Humans reunited was destroyed by the HH it plunged the Imperium into Technological stagnation and a terminal decline that has been hovering just above the extinction point up until the 41st Millenium.

TheAngrySquig wrote:That was my idea, but they are under the impression that its pre Imperial because they seem to think nothing was lost during the HH

Maybe its pre-imperial because the Land Raider was a design found at the start of the great crusade?
Like the article about the Land Raider stated?

It wouldn't matter what was lost during the HH when it wasn't found pre-HH ....

The Great Crusade and the HH are two separate things.

Yes, good job. Cookie for Blap

If the crusader is truly pre-Heresy then Mars also lost the blueprints in the HH.

Originally the BT were simply credited as having "developed" it during the Jerulas Crusade, and Mars didn't 'approve" of it as a design until news had finally spread of it working for the BT enough that several other Chapters requested the info on how to convert their own versions. It became an officially sanctioned design in 763.M39.

TheAngrySquig wrote:Did you even read the OP? Its a BT vehicle they developed from ancient schematics they found, Helbrecht didn't just crap it out one day

Or did he?

Maybe the fact the Codex Armageddon, the codices BlackTemplars,DarkAngels,SpaceMarines, etc etc all credit the BT for the LandRaiderCrusader and the index astartes clearly put the Land Raider ( phobos pattern ) at the start of the Great Crusade should tell the OP he has to provide a source for a pre M39 non-BlackTemplar LRC ?

I mean its not to much to ask for something to base the claim on 'lost data of the LRC pattern in the HH' on.

You know, if there were more than the basic phobos pre-HH, why wouldn't the traitors have the LRC and the LRR, too?
'But they don't....
So if 9 loyalist Legions are able to remember what they got, the other 9 wouldn't forget just because they turned to choas.
Land Raider patterns are usually different configs, so you don't have to build from scratch but swap a few components on STC based vehicles , ie tech meant to be compatible and interchangable.

There is exactly 0 ground to base any claim on the use of a pattern found in M39 by Legions.
The Land Raider is older than the imperium. The astartes are not that old. The Land Raider was given to the astartes ( and the Imperial army ) after a pattern was re-discovered and not the whole possible range of patterns. Having unknown patterns found after the HH is fine in my book. The question if it is pre-heresy has the answer: it was rediscovered after the heresy and as part of the STC tech it isn't neccessarily lost in the imperial era but most likely in the age of strife for example.
I don't believe a vehicle stated multiple times as firstly used in the Jerulas crusade in M39 belongs in a pre-heresy setup if you want to stay close to the background.