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But why did you have to defend it in a court of law? If you would rather not say for confidential/personal reasons etc I would understand, but still, having to defend your hobbies in a court of law

I knew Texas was bad, but this...

Frazzled wrote:As my signature used to say Frazzled the only man who's ever proven in a court of law that playing 40K makes you a geek, not a nut.

Sounds like an intriguing story which would be relevant to the topic. So what happened there then?

I'm very open about being a Geek/Nerd. I rarely get crap about it. Most people I talk to think it's cool, even though they would never play.

KingCracker wrote:I admit I play tabletop games all the time. Sometimes, talking about it even gets some new players, which is always good. Im not ashamed of my hobby at all.

I wouldn't say I was ashamed of it, I just can't explain it haha. I know my friends would accept it I just would rather that they didn't know, if that makes any sense at all?

I'm not ashamed to admit that I didn't strangle my imagination because people told me that dreams are dumb. I'm a nerd because I allow myself to let my mind wander and see things beyond what is directly in front of me.

Man toys come in every shape and sizes

Jihadin wrote:Man toys come in every shape and sizes

While ladies toys all share a similar shape, some girl's toys are bigger than other girl's toys though.

I have nothing wrong with being openly nerdy. I didnt try to hide the hobby either. I mean if people already knew I like to play video games for hours on end and read science fiction, what were they going to do if they know I play 40k? Plus telling my friends and other people about it, Ive actually got a group of 7 people that play 40k. So being a nerd actually has its benefits.

JaggyNI wrote:

KingCracker wrote:I admit I play tabletop games all the time. Sometimes, talking about it even gets some new players, which is always good. Im not ashamed of my hobby at all.

I wouldn't say I was ashamed of it, I just can't explain it haha. I know my friends would accept it I just would rather that they didn't know, if that makes any sense at all?

Now that sounds a bit ashamed if you ask me. If someone asks me what I do for fun, thats in the short list Ill rattle off.

Being in the army, you see all sorts of people, being in MI... you see a select group of humanity's "finest" specimens...

I always took great pleasure in poking fun at WoW nerds in my previous unit (they had me outnumbered by about 70 to 1), and when they would attempt to flip the script and make me seem "more" nerdy for playing with plastic toys... well, I'd ask them to show me what they accomplished in the previous weekend.. and ask who they were married to/dating/hung out with in real life... which usually ended their feeble attempts at making fun of another nerdy hobby.

Yeah, I play (or rather used to) 40k, Malifaux, HellDorado and DnD... I also bicycle fairly seriously each weekend with a local shop, I am applying to ARMA, to possibly become a member and begin practicing with them... I collect and "study" Scotch Whisky, and smoke premium cigars. All these things, when taken by themselves, if they were my ONLY hobbies would be considered nerdy. But, I don't view any one in particular to be nerdy, unless you really allow it... Each one brings a "subset" of humanity for you to interact with, each its own lingo that others may not understand.


Do I wear many T-shirts proclaiming my love of miniature wargaming... no. Do I hide it from people who ask, no to that as well... My hobbies are just that, and I see no reason why I should give a feth what "you" think if you don't like any one of them.

My SMAJ literally drooled over my Tau army yesterday.....

I'm 100% proud of being geeky. I constantly wear Boba Fett shirts, and argue with people about the technology behind lightsabers and blasters.

I'm quite proud of all the useless information I know about things that aren't even real.

I'd LARP if I knew people who did it. I love me some Ren Fairs and damn near all things dark ages. I also have a massive love for all things samurai. I enjoy certain anime, and still play Pokemon on gameboy from time to time.

I wouldn't have it any other way.

I still find myself playing pokemon when I have off time XD

Asherian Command wrote:I still find myself playing pokemon when I have off time XD

Pssh. JUST play? I IV breed and EV train on my off time. Before I got a job, I just RNGed everything, but now I can't be sure I'll have the exact moment I need free to just RNG everything.

Pokemon video games are the gak. Ive turned a few pretty hardcore RPG fans onto those games.

JaggyNI wrote:

KingCracker wrote:I admit I play tabletop games all the time. Sometimes, talking about it even gets some new players, which is always good. Im not ashamed of my hobby at all.

I wouldn't say I was ashamed of it, I just can't explain it haha. I know my friends would accept it I just would rather that they didn't know, if that makes any sense at all?

I understand, I'm the same way. Me being a teenager doesn't help either.

Well, I've got a 4.0 GPA, listen to Syphonic Metal, Classical, and Folk almost exclusively, and I live and breathe sci-fi and fantasy, with a bit of airsoft and video games mixed in. Yup I'm a nerd.

I'm in High School, and sometimes I will openly brag about being nerdy, even in the presence of le jocks, if for nothing more than the hilarious reactions I get. So I guess I'm a bit of a troll too.

But I'm totally open about Wargaming, and I've even impressed a few girls showing them pictures of my armies and saying "I painted that." (Not just randomly of course, but if the conversation starts to lean towards more nerdy topics)

And yes, Frazzled, I'm sure we'd all like to hear the story of how you triumphantly defended wargaming in a court of law.

Serving in the IDF with conscription you see a lot of nerds doing actually badass stuff. Ever see a nerd drive a merkava tank? It's an experience for all involved...

Harriticus wrote:Serving in the IDF with conscription you see a lot of nerds doing actually badass stuff. Ever see a nerd drive a merkava tank? It's an experience for all involved...

Id imagine its quite similar to any 18-19 guy, holy gak I'm driving a tank, a melon-fething tank.

LOL I serve in the US Army....retire in Sept 22 years WOOT....its funny seeing 18-19 yrs old get behind the wheel of a tank...even more funnier when you get them behind crew serve weapons with long belts of ammo.....or a MK19 with HE rds....sometimes I wonder....I FETHING JEALOUS because I can no longer do that silly crap anymore

dogma wrote:

Orlanth wrote:
Thats not nerds thats 4chan users. Internet has mass access and a low collective IQ.

Because "nerds" are only the smart people that do "nerdy" things.

Posting on the internet isn't specifically nerdy, it's mainstream. Sites like Twitter, Facebook and 4chan are definitely mainstream.

dogma wrote:

Orlanth wrote:
For example the nerds here are gamers who play with miniatures and dice. A firm subcategory of nerd. Drunk bums 'shoot craps', just because they like to roll 2d6 doesn't make them nerds.

I won't lie, I don't like you and never have (I would invent pejoratives.), but good God that's elitist; and I'm disgustingly so. Keep in mind, self-admonished arrogant prick is calling you elitist.

Your intolerance ought not to get in the way of assessing an opinion properly, but from long experience I have come to expect no better from you.
Playing dice games within miniatures gaming or RPG's is definitely nerdy, however other dice games exist outside of nerd culture.
Gambling with dice is mainstream, so for example 'shooting craps on the sidewalk' is part of a very different culture to nerdiness.
Nothing wrong about saying that, nothing at all. Your cause for complaint is entirely in your own head, and clearly based on who made the comment not its content.

I think nerdy stuff is the new cool. You only have to look at the tv to see how much more common all the gak we are in to crops up.. Look at the big bang theories popularity.

I'm telling you.. hipster douchebags are starting to wear 40k shirts! ;-)

Orlanth wrote:
Posting on the internet isn't specifically nerdy, it's mainstream. Sites like Twitter, Facebook and 4chan are definitely mainstream.

4chan isn't mainstream. If you ask a random person on the street what 4chan is they probably won't know, but they will know what Twitter and Facebook are. You don't see celebrities talking about their day using image macros on 4chan.

Now, lots of people are familiar with things that came from 4chan, but they probably don't know that's where those things originated.

Orlanth wrote:
Your intolerance ought not to get in the way of assessing an opinion properly, but from long experience I have come to expect no better from you.
Playing dice games within miniatures gaming or RPG's is definitely nerdy, however other dice games exist outside of nerd culture.
Gambling with dice is mainstream, so for example 'shooting craps on the sidewalk' is part of a very different culture to nerdiness.
Nothing wrong about saying that, nothing at all. Your cause for complaint is entirely in your own head, and clearly based on who made the comment not its content.

But you weren't making a statement about whether or not the nerdiness of a thing was related to whether or not its mainstream, you were making a statement about the overall intelligence of nerdy people. The only way whether or not something is mainstream could be considered relevant is if you're arguing that people who do things that are no mainstream tend to be more intelligent, which is just hipster nonsense that said people use to pat themselves on the back when the world makes light of their niche obsession. This isn't in my own head, its literally the first thing you said coming into this thread put in the context of your successive comments based on the base of people engaging in the relevant activities.

Yes, dice gambling is mainstream, but the point you were attempting to make is eliminative in that you were essentially discarding any person who pursues a nerdy activity (Remember, there are nerdy people and nerdy activities, one can be a music nerd.) that didn't live up to a standard of greater intelligence in order to make a point about nerds somehow being a new elite. There's a specific name for this particular fallacy, it is a favorite of the internet, and an offshoot of nerds protecting their traditionally niche activities from mass access.

dogma wrote:

Orlanth wrote:
Posting on the internet isn't specifically nerdy, it's mainstream. Sites like Twitter, Facebook and 4chan are definitely mainstream.

4chan isn't mainstream. If you ask a random person on the street what 4chan is they probably won't know, but they will know what Twitter and Facebook are. You don't see celebrities talking about their day using image macros on 4chan.

Now, lots of people are familiar with things that came from 4chan, but they probably don't know that's where those things originated.

We can hopefully agree to disagree as to whether 4chan is mainstream. However that is a long way from assuming that non mainstream websites are therefore nerdy. Internet use is mainstream and certain siters fit cetrain genres of people. Dakka, nerdy to the core, because of its content. If I was to label 4chan as anything specific it would be a 'kiddie' site, and am reluctant to even say that. Frankly I think it mainstream, I have no peroblems if you thuink different, but will question why you would think it specifically nerdy.

dogma wrote:
But you weren't making a statement about whether or not the nerdiness of a thing was related to whether or not its mainstream, you were making a statement about the overall intelligence of nerdy people.

Actually that isn't so. I commented on both in separation. Hence my use of punctuation.
I commented on nerds tending to have a higher IQ because, first its basically true and accepted as such, second it helps diffuse any discrimination the OP might be suffering on account of being labelled a nerd.
I commented on the difference between rolling d6 in wargames and while shooting craps to indicate that one can undergo an activeity similar to a nerdy activity without it being nerdy.

dogma wrote:
The only way whether or not something is mainstream could be considered relevant is if you're arguing that people who do things that are no mainstream tend to be more intelligent, which is just hipster nonsense that said people use to pat themselves on the back when the world makes light of their niche obsession. This isn't in my own head, its literally the first thing you said coming into this thread put in the context of your successive comments based on the base of people engaging in the relevant activities.

This is why you should hate a little less. You end up wanting to believe things about people that aren't remotely indicated, because it helps you hate them more.
Why even hate me, you dont know me, we are on different continents. Haven't you anything better to do than spew bile. Its a sorry state of affairs you should learn to rise above.

dogma wrote:
Yes, dice gambling is mainstream, but the point you were attempting to make is eliminative in that you were essentially discarding any person who pursues a nerdy activity (Remember, there are nerdy people and nerdy activities, one can be a music nerd.) that didn't live up to a standard of greater intelligence in order to make a point about nerds somehow being a new elite. There's a specific name for this particular fallacy, it is a favorite of the internet, and an offshoot of nerds protecting their traditionally niche activities from mass access.

How on earth did you come up with this, it wasn't what I thought wrote or even implied. I reread all my posts on this site, tied to twist them to come up with your conclusions. Couldnt.
It seems to me all you do is: see post by Orlanth - seeth - and then assume the worst.



I am curious, do you actually get angry when you see me post? If you do I suggest you get over it. It will only taint you.
Now I am not immune to being angry at you, but normally only after you have given me a thorough trolling on a thread, and most often I try to get right back on topic.
It might be best for you to leave me alone, not for my sake. I can handle you, but because this obviously gets way too personal for you and causes you to get really twisted.
Answer this honest question, do you end up pissed off a long time after one of my posts, or after you reply to my posts? If so just stop, its not doing you any good.
When I have finished here I move on, I don't even hate you. I prefer you weren't around to some extent, but mostly I just dont care, and I am not the uncaring sort. Frankly I just find that healthier attitude than the heavy resentment you seem to be carrying.

Anyway. Sorry about that everyone else. Back on topic.

I think 4chan is pretty famous these days me, I don't know how you classify something as mainstream mind, but most people I know have heard of it.

Not that anything that goes between you two when your at it has anything to do with the topic at hand.

As I said, I dont think nerd stuff is uncool anymore either way, so the OP has feth all to worry about. Modern "Nerds" seem to be no less cool than anybody else.

It wasn't the case when I was a kid though, I remember picking on a kid at school cos he always wore Star Trek socks and he could apparently speak Klingon.

Little did I know that twenty years later me and my missus would watch an episode of TNG every other night of the week.

The spotty little fether had great taste for a 12 year old!

Harriticus wrote:Serving in the IDF with conscription you see a lot of nerds doing actually badass stuff. Ever see a nerd drive a merkava tank? It's an experience for all involved...

Merkava, no.

Achzarit, yes. Mate of mine used to drive one. He spent 8-9 years in the IDF before leaving to return to Oz (he was born in Israel, but spent most of his first 20 years in Australia, before deciding to go to Israel for a 'holiday' and join up before they got him for CNS (compulsory national service). He went armour. He was a cocky, chauvinistic young male with a chip on both shoulders. His instructors were women. He was a changed man (in more ways than one) when he returned.).

He said the troops used a colloquial name for the Achzarit (hebrew, feminine form of "cruel"). They called it "the bitch".

He showed me photos.

Now THAT is an APC!

One thing I admire about Israel, their own people stick it out together. Coming from Oz to do national service, yet could have stayed away and nothing could be done about it.

Got to respect that, even if I strongly dislike many of their political choices.

Orlanth wrote:Frankly I think it mainstream, I have no peroblems if you thuink different, but will question why you would think it specifically nerdy.

Because frequenting an obscure message board is about as nerdy as it gets. This ties into what you yourself brought about nerds tending to be tech savvy. The internet and technology are basically the heart of modern nerd culture, with gaming thrown in on the side. When people talk about being a "music nerd" or a "pop culture nerd" they're really just referencing that contemporary association of nerdy behavior with technology.

Orlanth wrote:
Actually that isn't so. I commented on both in separation. Hence my use of punctuation.

You may have commented on them in separation, but they're still both your comments (hence my use of the word "context"). Simply using punctuation does not indicate that two ideas are not related, if it did books would be collections of wholly independent statements and therefore useless.

Orlanth wrote:
I commented on nerds tending to have a higher IQ because, first its basically true and accepted as such, second it helps diffuse any discrimination the OP might be suffering on account of being labelled a nerd.

First, no, it isn't basically true. Its a mantra nerds repeat to themselves for their own benefit, and its accepted by nerds and people that don't bother thinking about where the evidence for the acceptance of said mantra comes from. Diffusing discrimination by way of delusion is worse than simply being discriminated against, as it never actually helps to end the discrimination; often it just makes it worse.

Orlanth wrote:
I commented on the difference between rolling d6 in wargames and while shooting craps to indicate that one can undergo an activeity similar to a nerdy activity without it being nerdy.

Which, in the context of eliminating 4chan as nerdy, is a clear attempt to isolated "nerds" as an intellectual elite by culling all those that don't fit the description.

Orlanth wrote:
This is why you should hate a little less. You end up wanting to believe things about people that aren't remotely indicated, because it helps you hate them more. Why even hate me, you dont know me, we are on different continents. Haven't you anything better to do than spew bile. Its a sorry state of affairs you should learn to rise above.

I don't hate you, you're a random guy on the internet. I dislike you because I consider you wrongheaded with regard to nearly everything you take an opinion on. There is a pronounced distinction between disliking someone and hating them. I'm not going to burn down your house, but when you say something that annoys me because it is clearly wrong I will comment.

Orlanth wrote:
How on earth did you come up with this, it wasn't what I thought wrote or even implied. I reread all my posts on this site, tied to twist them to come up with your conclusions. Couldnt.

Of course you couldn't, had you been able to you wouldn't have posted as such in the first place. And while you may not have thought as such while posting, it is the natural implication of your posts and what you imply does not have to result from intention.

dogma wrote:

Orlanth wrote:Frankly I think it mainstream, I have no peroblems if you thuink different, but will question why you would think it specifically nerdy.

Because frequenting an obscure message board is about as nerdy as it gets. This ties into what you yourself brought about nerds tending to be tech savvy. The internet and technology are basically the heart of modern nerd culture, with gaming thrown in on the side. When people talk about being a "music nerd" or a "pop culture nerd" they're really just referencing that contemporary association of nerdy behavior with technology.

4chan is not obscure, anything but. Most kids have heard of 4chan, for youth culture its definitely mainstream.
As far as tech savvy goes, that goes beyond internet. nerds tend to be tech savvy in general. Of course this is a tendency, not a hard rule.

dogma wrote:

Orlanth wrote:
Actually that isn't so. I commented on both in separation. Hence my use of punctuation.

You may have commented on them in separation, but they're still both your comments (hence my use of the word "context"). Simply using punctuation does not indicate that two ideas are not related, if it did books would be collections of wholly independent statements and therefore useless.

So here is a lesson for you. Two points made doesnt mean they are one and the same. Furthermore it doesnt mean they were posted under the same mentality.
where you go really off the rails is by assuming of the spirit in which a post is made. Which doesn't help if hate rather than reason is fueling your thinking.

Orlanth wrote:
I commented on nerds tending to have a higher IQ because, first its basically true and accepted as such, second it helps diffuse any discrimination the OP might be suffering on account of being labelled a nerd.

First, no, it isn't basically true. Its a mantra nerds repeat to themselves for their own benefit, and its accepted by nerds and people that don't bother thinking about where the evidence for the acceptance of said mantra comes from. Diffusing discrimination by way of delusion is worse than simply being discriminated against, as it never actually helps to end the discrimination; often it just makes it worse.

dogma wrote:

Orlanth wrote:
I commented on the difference between rolling d6 in wargames and while shooting craps to indicate that one can undergo an activeity similar to a nerdy activity without it being nerdy.

Which, in the context of eliminating 4chan as nerdy, is a clear attempt to isolated "nerds" as an intellectual elite by culling all those that don't fit the description.

The two highest IQ groups by hobby type are astronomers, with wargamers second. There is something behind it.

Besides heard of the term dweeb. A dweeb is most commonly defined as someone into nerdy culture but who doesnt have the brain power to be a true nerd, though there is some contention as to the definition.

dogma wrote:
I don't hate you, you're a random guy on the internet. I dislike you because I consider you wrongheaded with regard to nearly everything you take an opinion on.

That by the way is hatred, the prejudice seeps through nice and thick. Partly from the transparent attitude, mostly because you assume the worst in what I write, repeatedly. I remember you saying that you wouldn't read a post I had written earlier in a thread because it would 'imply respect'. Oh well.

dogma (old thread) wrote:
Orlanth wrote:
I said it quite frequently in the above posts, so frequently it would be a waste of time to copy paste more than a fraction of the occassions. Here are hopefully enough to set this straight:

Again, I have no interest in reading the majority of your posts. That would imply respect.

So by your own admission you dont read the posts to find out what I mean or say, but just try to find isolated sentences to troll. That only makes sense if you are hate fueled.

dogma wrote:
There is a pronounced distinction between disliking someone and hating them. I'm not going to burn down your house, but when you say something that annoys me because it is clearly wrong I will comment.

Indeed and arson is not a delimiting point. Why are you annoyed if you think I say something 'wrong'. Why not let it slide? Answer : because your hate is consuming.
Time to let it go.

dogma wrote:
Of course you couldn't, had you been able to you wouldn't have posted as such in the first place. And while you may not have thought as such while posting, it is the natural implication of your posts and what you imply does not have to result from intention.

It simply isn't the natural implication of my posts, for that to make any sense you would have to know my mind better than myself, which is a somewhat arrogant thing to say at the least. Also you would have to know my mind when having never met me. That would be a tough call even for those who know me well.
Conversely I am used to your contempt, its plain text so I don't have to analyse it to know it. it doesn't say anything creditable about you at all.
Besides you still act this way after I tried a few olive branches and even the occassional compliment where I had the rare excuse to post one.

Never mind. Troll feed mode switch to OFF.