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5th Ed. brought more fluff changes than I could handle.

I started 40k at the outset of 3rd Ed.

Over the years I've seen the fluff get worse and worse (IMHO).

I'm at the point now that I don't even read the fluff in a codex. I just read the rules.

Once upon a time: In the grim darkness of the far future there is only war.

Nowadays: In the dim stories of the far future there is only space marines and their allies... and Tyranids.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Early fluff had genesealer cults, brain worm mind control and zoat negociators.

So that's 3 right there.

Zoats and brain worm mind control ended when Rogue Trader became 2nd edition. They have not appeared since. Generstealer cults went from being an ending in and of themselves to being the precusor to a full hive fleet invasion, with the logic being if the cult finds enough breeding stock to eventually "breed true" again then there will be enough life on the planet to make it worthwhile for the hive mind to consume it. Then the hive fleet shows up and consumes all, including the cult. They don't differentiate, because the hive fleet doesn't have friends.

Skriker

acekevin8412 wrote:Confirmed:

http://natfka.blogspot.com/2012/06/pics-pages-from-rulebook-force-weapons.html

It is now, yes. Carry on

So Nemesis Halberds still pwn terminators

Nope, they don't
+2I AP3 is all you get.

I have really grown to like the Tau. They are the voice of reason, an they are disconnected from the warp. They don't need powers they use the walk softly an carry a big stick mentality.

Also like Space Wolves because I have always been a big fan of ancient norse culture.

Liked Grey Knights an play them, but their fluff blows a bit.

acekevin8412 wrote:Nope, they don't
+2I AP3 is all you get.

Yeah, I'm not so sure. We'll just have to see when the FAQ hits. I haven't read the book myself, but the image posted here only covers generic force weapons, but the text makes specific mention of halberds counting as axes.

Giving halberds +2I, +1S and AP2 would be... nice

I, interpret that page as saying that because of their special rules, Nemesis Force Halberds fall under, "unusual force weapons," and thus are only AP3. I agree that an FAQ might change this, GW has done stupider things like the CSM Warp Time ruling, so we'll have to see.

Assuming you're right though, you're Halberds would be hitting at I3 with S5 AP2 because of the unwieldly rule. Might get killed by I4 Power Swords if you're unlucky. Unless you're a Terminator as well of course.

Back on topic:

When I saw the Allies chart I immediately thought back to that fluff change rumor. I think it is looking very strong that something is going to happen between the Tau and the SM. The whole premise is whacky on its face but if it is actually well written....

I have Tau and Silver Skulls (C:SM), but the idea of playing them together bothers me. I am not sure my Prognosticar would be to happy about that.

SickSix wrote:I have Tau and Silver Skulls (C:SM), but the idea of playing them together bothers me. I am not sure my Prognosticar would be to happy about that.

Then don't. You aren't required to take any allies at all.

There easily solved.

Skriker

And 'Battle Brother' is just a level of cooperation. It doesn't mean they're hanging out sharing beers, having BBQs, and swapping stories. It just means they trust each other enough to fight together.

The Imperium isn't so hard lined as to be unable to see when cooperation with the lesser of two evils is needed. I'd rather band together with the Tau then anyone whose not Imperial. At the very least you don't have to worry about them stabbing you in the back in the middle of the fight.

The allies matrix makes sense: Chaos Marines get to ally with Daemons, Imperials can join other imperials, Xenos get varying degrees of mistrust barring a few odd exceptions. This is the 40k universe as we always knew it, no big news here.

That Tau rumor is odd. As Grey Templar said, Battle Brother only implies fluid, seamless cooperation. That can have a justification in the fluff or just imply that both armies use similar methods and are willing to work together for a common goal.

The Tau are naïve and inclined to cooperate, the Astartes are pragmatic and bound by honor and Codex. In the rare occasions both armies have to face a common foe, they will do so without hindrances and mistrust getting in the way.

And any complaints about Tau allying with other armies against other foes, well, Tau really arn't a justified codex IMO. They are stuck in one little corner of the galaxy.

If we wanted to be real hardcore about fluff, then Tau couldn't play against CSMs that arn't Alpha Legion, Space Wolves, Blood Angels, Necrons, DKoK, Valhallans, or Catachans because those armies have never entered Tau space.

Grey Templar wrote:And any complaints about Tau allying with other armies against other foes, well, Tau really arn't a justified codex IMO. They are stuck in one little corner of the galaxy.

If we wanted to be real hardcore about fluff, then Tau couldn't play against CSMs that arn't Alpha Legion, Space Wolves, Blood Angels, Necrons, DKoK, Valhallans, or Catachans because those armies have never entered Tau space.

Show me the precise location of every single CSM Warband, Space Wolf company, Blood Angel company, Necron army, Death Korps regiment, Valhallan regiment, or Catachan regiment and I will believe you.

I grant, its not impossable that those forces would be deployed to the tau area of space but think about it.

The homeworlds of those forces are very far away from Ultramar and the Tau empire. The Administratum isn't going to send those buggers accross the galaxy when there are wars to be fought close at hand. Space Marines will also stick to their sector of space for the most part.


I'm just saying this to prove my point that the Tau allying with some people is no more rediclous then the fact the Tau even have a Codex.

Unit1126PLL wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:And any complaints about Tau allying with other armies against other foes, well, Tau really arn't a justified codex IMO. They are stuck in one little corner of the galaxy.

If we wanted to be real hardcore about fluff, then Tau couldn't play against CSMs that arn't Alpha Legion, Space Wolves, Blood Angels, Necrons, DKoK, Valhallans, or Catachans because those armies have never entered Tau space.

Show me the precise location of every single CSM Warband, Space Wolf company, Blood Angel company, Necron army, Death Korps regiment, Valhallan regiment, or Catachan regiment and I will believe you.

Yes, yes, and let's remove the GK since they're only about 1000 of them vs the 100s of thousands of SM and untold trillions of Guardsmen.
Not to overreact, but you're post is practically flame-bait.

The rules are for a game to sell models first, fun second, and logic, if it can even apply in this setting third.

Grey Templar wrote:If we wanted to be real hardcore about fluff, then Tau couldn't play against CSMs that arn't Alpha Legion, Space Wolves, Blood Angels, Necrons, DKoK, Valhallans, or Catachans because those armies have never entered Tau space.

It's a game, not a historical re-enactment.

This sort of thing is less of a problem if you look at your games as a 'what if...?' rather than a continuation of the actual backgroud material.

acekevin8412 wrote:

Unit1126PLL wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:And any complaints about Tau allying with other armies against other foes, well, Tau really arn't a justified codex IMO. They are stuck in one little corner of the galaxy.

If we wanted to be real hardcore about fluff, then Tau couldn't play against CSMs that arn't Alpha Legion, Space Wolves, Blood Angels, Necrons, DKoK, Valhallans, or Catachans because those armies have never entered Tau space.

Show me the precise location of every single CSM Warband, Space Wolf company, Blood Angel company, Necron army, Death Korps regiment, Valhallan regiment, or Catachan regiment and I will believe you.

Yes, yes, and let's remove the GK since they're only about 1000 of them vs the 100s of thousands of SM and untold trillions of Guardsmen.
Not to overreact, but you're post is practically flame-bait.

The rules are for a game to sell models first, fun second, and logic, if it can even apply in this setting third.

As dead on as this is, I really wish it could be the other way around...

http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Macragge_heresy
This could be adopted by 40k writers (JK)

I would actually love for the Astartes to have more less of a leash on them.

insaniak wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:If we wanted to be real hardcore about fluff, then Tau couldn't play against CSMs that arn't Alpha Legion, Space Wolves, Blood Angels, Necrons, DKoK, Valhallans, or Catachans because those armies have never entered Tau space.

It's a game, not a historical re-enactment.

This sort of thing is less of a problem if you look at your games as a 'what if...?' rather than a continuation of the actual backgroud material.

Which is what my point was.

I was saying that allies arn't a huge deal when the very existence of one codex beggers belief as to its merits within the fluff.

I really hope they don't kill the DA's awesomeness. And make them more well Knightly

acekevin8412 wrote:

insaniak wrote:

acekevin8412 wrote:Whatever the name is, there are 3 tiers of allies right? Like the matrix?

That seems to be the case, yes. But I haven't seen any confirmation that the tiers are the same as the 5th ed Doubles matrix, just that the allies are the same.

Confirmed:

http://natfka.blogspot.com/2012/06/pics-pages-from-rulebook-force-weapons.html

No, No, No, This can't be happening! *runs off sobbing*

Do we know it's the Ultramarines that cozy up to the Tau? Like everyone else, I'm assuming it's them, but for all we know Farsight could go to Rynn's world an offer Kantor an anti-Orc alliance, and that's where all of this comes from!?

Lobukia wrote:Do we know it's the Ultramarines that cozy up to the Tau? Like everyone else, I'm assuming it's them, but for all we know Farsight could go to Rynn's world an offer Kantor an anti-Orc alliance, and that's where all of this comes from!?

Well the rules say it's Codex: Space Marines, this implies Ultras and their successors yes.
However, in fluff terms, "Codex," chapters include Blood Angels, and I think Dark Angels.

acekevin8412 wrote:

Lobukia wrote:Do we know it's the Ultramarines that cozy up to the Tau? Like everyone else, I'm assuming it's them, but for all we know Farsight could go to Rynn's world an offer Kantor an anti-Orc alliance, and that's where all of this comes from!?

Well the rules say it's Codex: Space Marines, this implies Ultras and their successors yes.
However, in fluff terms, "Codex," chapters include Blood Angels, and I think Dark Angels.

Well the Codex is not just Ultras and their successors, it's also IF, CF, RG, Sallies, IH, and countless others (first & second founding and beyond).