[V6] YMTC - Initiative Changing mid-combat aka 'dude where are my attacks'?

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**culsandar**

A and D are the fairest options, people that say he should lose his attacks are just marine haters.

D doesn't really work because if he piles in at the next init and touches another model, he's back to I1, in which he would pile in again and finally attack. That's three times this assault that you have displaced the same model.

A causes the least amount of models moved, effects, and verbal stress. It's also the same way the codex was written to be played in 5th (pulling models not from b2b, so the Captain would still be I1).

As they say: Keep It Simple, Stupid.

**keltikhoa**

DeathReaper wrote:
Here is how it plays out in my head:

Captain Nexus: Men follow my lead, kill those vile Necrons, <Screams> For the emperor, Charge!

<Captain Nexus and his men charge headlong into the Necrons firing up their chainswords and letting loose a torrent of fire from their bolt pistols>

The captain gets tangled in the coiled machine like tentacles that spring out to entangle him just before he strikes, and the captain works to free himself of the Xenos tech.

Brother Jacen: The captain is tangled up, let us kill that tentacled abomination and free him!

The marines swing their chainswords in a mighty arc freeing the captain and killing the machine like thing that was restricting his movements. Suddenly the machines strike at the marines wounding two of them but leaving the others unscathed.

Finally the captain, free of his restraints and ready to punish the vile Xenos, leaps toward the remaining machines with his power sword that is humming with a crackling electric field and slices the two remaining machines in twain with one mighty cleaving attack!

The Captain and his battle brothers return to task looking for more vile Xenos to dispatch.

Exactly same reason I voted A. Although In my narrative the Wraiths ate the SM vermin.

**whembly**

Eh... I voted for D... but, that'd require even more "book keeping".

A is how I'd likely play.

**Dracos**

Technically by RAW B is correct.

I'd be willing to play it either A or D however.

I think D is the most logical (Captain swings as soon as the coil releases him...).

Voted D.

**Scott**

I picked C but meant to pick D.

The rules for Whip Coils state that an enemy fights a I1 as long as a model with the Coils is in b2b.

In the example at the top of the thread, the Captain was rescued by his I4 buddies. Since the Captain could not attack at I4, he should be allowed to attack during the next Initiative step.

Not allowing him any attacks this combat is unacceptable.

**Lobokai**

Well its good to see that only 12% of us think the attacks should be lost. I wonder what percent of DakkaDakka owns necrons?

**Jidmah**

Necrons would still get screwed by other necrons

**Gloomfang**

The question is wrong and as a Nid player it hurts me to say this: he always goes at I5. Look at the combat rules. You take all modifers before pile in. Once you pile in for I5 then you attack, there is no further check for init. There is a blurb saying that all all attacks that happen at the same init. Happen at the same time, but that is not part of the initative step process, just a clarrification.

If he is not in BtB before pile in you attack at your init. Even if you end up in BtB with a lash whip.
So let's review the fight subphase on pg22-23.
Init step 10
Pile in all Init 10.
Check who can fight
Roll to hit
roll to wound
allocate wounds
take saves.
Repeat for the other side.

Go to Init 9 and repeat.

The part that is tripping folks up is the blurb at the top of pg. 23 on the right. That is not a step. Look at the font and format. It is part of the "who can fight section" and not a step in the fight subphase but a clarrification on who can fight.

**yakface**

Gloomfang wrote:The question is wrong and as a Nid player it hurts me to say this: he always goes at I5. Look at the combat rules. You take all modifers before pile in. Once you pile in for I5 then you attack, there is no further check for init. There is a blurb saying that all all attacks that happen at the same init. Happen at the same time.
If he is not in BtB before pile in you attack at your init. Even if you end up in BtB with a lash whip.

The scenario presented in the OP has the Captain being contacted by a Lash Whip Wraith on the initial charge move. The Wraith in contact with him is then later killed by another Marine striking at I4.

**Gloomfang**

yakface wrote:
The scenario presented in the OP has the Captain being contacted by a Lash Whip Wraith on the initial charge move. The Wraith in contact with him is then later killed by another Marine striking at I4.

Why is that even a question? Pg83 of the Nid codex under lash whip "models in BtB count as Init 1 until the end of the Assault phase".
He is Init 1 until the end of the assault phase even if the lash whip dies. I assume the Necron codex has the same language but I don't own it.

**yakface**

Gloomfang wrote:
Why is that even a question? Pg83 of the Nid codex under lash whip "models in BtB count as Init 1 until the end of the Assault phase".
He is Init 1 until the end of the assault phase even if the lash whip dies. I assume the Necron codex has the same language but I don't own it.

You assume incorrectly! Whip Coils only reduce the models Initiative while in base contact...no mention of duration beyond that is included.

**Gloomfang**

Then that is just stuoid on their part. Coils and lash whips should act the same so I vote for I 1.
Talk about snaching defeat from the jaws of vitory. They just needed to copy and paste to avoid all this.
However it does show bioweapons are better than mechanical technology.
Sorry about the confusion. Didn't think they would be so stupid.

**Userarm**

Despite my belief that Option B is the RAW , i have chosen Option A as my cousins need every help they can get, the poor little non-necrons lol.
This to me is the easiest way as technically they aren't supposed to get attacks if their Iniative has passed by but for fairness i would allow him to strike at Iniative 1, atleast until it is FAQ'd.

**Luide**

For those choosing B:
In that case, wouldn't Captain that has already struck his attacks at I5 get another swing if Wraith with whip-coils piles in to him at Initiative step 2?.

**Vindicare-Obsession**

Original post said this isint up for discussion

**Testify**

Option A seems the obvious and sportsmanly option. I don't think many people would like to play with someone who insited that captain couldn't attack.

**RFHolloway**

Posted D, based on after resolving I4 step he has the highest initiative and hasn't attacked, but would be fine with A

**Lord Rogukiel**

How exactly does the wargear function in fluff terms? Is it something like grenades that once they go off, they're off and nothing can be done about it, or is it a piece of wargear than needs constant input from the wielder to keep his opponent at I1?

I think if its like grenades, then Option A for sure. If it needed the wraith to still be alive (which I believe is the case according to the wording), then I would go for option D, although it could be plausible that it takes the captain most of the combat round to shake off the effects. Therefore option A seems the fairest compromise between RAW and fair play/fluff.

**Akroma06**

RAW would state that B would be the "correct answer" as Int 5 has already past and he is now Int 5 not 1. Now as that doesn't seem quite right I would think that RAI would be A. Being as I have both armies how would I play it as a marine player? B. As a cron player A. D doesn't make sense since no one has Int 3 no one would able to swing. C also doesn't have any basis for an out of sequence swing.

**Aftersong**

In a friendly game A, in a tournament B

**steinerp**

For those of you voting that he loses his attacks how would you treat this scenerio. Captain attacks at I5, the wraiths than pile in getting into btb with him at I2, so he is now I1. Does he attack again at I1?

**rigeld2**

steinerp wrote:For those of you voting that he loses his attacks how would you treat this scenerio. Captain attacks at I5, the wraiths than pile in getting into btb with him at I2, so he is now I1. Does he attack again at I1?

a) this thread isn't for debate
b) RAW yes, he'd attack again. HIWPI (which is what this thread asked) is that he already attacked once, he's spent.

**Teeef**

I would play OPTION A.

Ideally I would mention that this is how I would play the scenario to my opponent before the game and we would come to an agreement making it the actual rule for that game. I can see the argument for B, but would not play it that way.

GW omitting, "...for the rest of that phase..." or similar language is likely but I won't discuss that here.

**xole**

I voted for option B, but in the unlikely scenario this actually happened I would prefer to play option A. I would keep my mouth shut unless someone else brought it up.

**sirlynchmob**

Wouldn't this work the other way as well. You have someone with a high init not in B2B with some tyranid warriors with lash whips. He gets his attack at his init, the warriors go and move into B2B with said model lowering his init to 1. Does he get to attack again at init 1?