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I am a Necron player. I just bought a Doom Scythe. As much as I want to say yes...

No. I cannot see the Death Ray, a S10, AP1 weapon being allowed to hit other flyers. Twin Linked Tesla Destructors ALREADY rock flyers. And I am talking ones on Anni Barges that hit on 6s.

I do hope it gets FAQ'd and if I am wrong, GREAT! Until then, I think it's only fair to assume that this trick doesn't work.

EDIT: Question, though. If the flyer is hovering, can you then hit it with the Deathray?

nosferatu1001 wrote:No. to hit a flyer you must be using skyfire, and to hit ground targets you must only snap shot. Snap shot cannot use weapons that dont use BS.

Maybe you should read the fething thread instead of applying selective reasoning. Death ray never targets a unit, so you don't know that something needs to be fired as a snap shot until after you've determined the flyer is already hit.

Nothing in the flyer or skyfire rules says anything like "attacks can't hit unless they were fired as snap shots". The closest thing to that is the instruction to "resolve" all shots at flyers as snap shots, but the only thing that differentiates a snap shot from a regular shot is what BS you fire the attack at. Even if you interpret it as "attacks can't hit unless fired as snap shots", just pick skyfire for that round... there's absolutely nothing that says you 'resolve' shots at ground targets as snap shots there, just that you can only fire snapshots at ground targets.

RAI it's probably the intent that line attacks can only hit flyers if they have skyfire, or perhaps not at all if they were intended to be grouped into template/blast/large blasts. But RAW it is incredibly clear that it hits whatever is under the line.
The only people claiming otherwise are the ones clinging to Hard to Hit and ignoring all the other rules that explicitly override it, like the codex entry for the death ray itself.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

TheKbob wrote:I am a Necron player. I just bought a Doom Scythe. As much as I want to say yes...

No. I cannot see the Death Ray, a S10, AP1 weapon being allowed to hit other flyers. Twin Linked Tesla Destructors ALREADY rock flyers. And I am talking ones on Anni Barges that hit on 6s.

I do hope it gets FAQ'd and if I am wrong, GREAT! Until then, I think it's only fair to assume that this trick doesn't work.

EDIT: Question, though. If the flyer is hovering, can you then hit it with the Deathray?

I'm getting really tired of pointing out the same flaws in this reasoning to everyone who hasn't read the thread. Just read the damn thread.

But yeah, hitting a hovering flyer is a no-brainer, since it's just a skimmer at that point.

Ostrakon - brilliant insults.

Way to get people to not want to respond to you. Bravo

And I think RAI would make a S10, AP1 anti-air weapon that always hits a bit broken out the ass.

It needs a FAQ and it's not clear. I have read every thread on it and both sides can make a valid argument but at the end of the day, being skilled player, I know that the death ray would be extremely overpowered in this circumstance. It will always hit (the main defense for a flyer), it will always connect with a flyer 5/6 of the time and pentrate 2/3 of the time with a 1/2 chance of destruction every time it penetrates.

No other flyer (that I am aware of) has that kind of capability in a dog fight with ONE gun. As I stated, the Tesla Destructor is already one of the best anti-air guns and having one that always hits on 3s versus other craft at St7 is disgusting. Combining both would be an almost instant kill to any flyer.

This will be a decisive split until it is FAQ'd and GW wants to FAQ it into being OP, then that's their choice. As a Necron player that plays/owns the model and competitively, I can say that no effing way should the Death Ray hit flyers. And I am in the camp that follows Pg 13. It's pretty clear:

"Any shooting attack that does not use a ballistic skill... ... cannot be 'fired' as Snap Shots"

Death Ray DOES circumvent needing a ballstic skill but it also does not use a ballistic skill. How hard is that to understand? The example given of the exile door on the monolith falls in the same category as the Death Ray.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Ostrakon - brilliant insults.

Way to get people to not want to respond to you. Bravo

Ostrakon presented a very well-reasoned and logically sound rebuttal to your argument (made by another poster) which wasn't even based on the actual rules, but rather an inaccurately summarized version of them. Then you just parroted back the same stuff that was said the first time. If you don't want to be insulted then it would behoove you read threads before participating in them.

Edit: jsust not worth it.

The rules seem clear here, when GW FAQ it to make it even more explicit that will be fine.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Ostrakon - brilliant insults.

Way to get people to not want to respond to you. Bravo

Telling people to read the thread is an insult? That's an impressive amount of perceived attack, even for a 40k player.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

TheKbob wrote:And I think RAI would make a S10, AP1 anti-air weapon that always hits a bit broken out the ass.

It needs a FAQ and it's not clear. I have read every thread on it and both sides can make a valid argument but at the end of the day, being skilled player, I know that the death ray would be extremely overpowered in this circumstance. It will always hit (the main defense for a flyer), it will always connect with a flyer 5/6 of the time and pentrate 2/3 of the time with a 1/2 chance of destruction every time it penetrates.

No other flyer (that I am aware of) has that kind of capability in a dog fight with ONE gun. As I stated, the Tesla Destructor is already one of the best anti-air guns and having one that always hits on 3s versus other craft at St7 is disgusting. Combining both would be an almost instant kill to any flyer.

This will be a decisive split until it is FAQ'd and GW wants to FAQ it into being OP, then that's their choice. As a Necron player that plays/owns the model and competitively, I can say that no effing way should the Death Ray hit flyers. And I am in the camp that follows Pg 13. It's pretty clear:

"Any shooting attack that does not use a ballistic skill... ... cannot be 'fired' as Snap Shots"

Death Ray DOES circumvent needing a ballstic skill but it also does not use a ballistic skill. How hard is that to understand? The example given of the exile door on the monolith falls in the same category as the Death Ray.

...again, read the thread.

The death ray never, ever selects a target. It circumvents the first two steps of the shooting process defined on page 12. By the time a flyer is determined to be under the line, we have already fired the weapon. We can't go back and say 'wait a minute! this needs to be fired as a snap shot because a flyer will be hit by it!." It's too late. The flyer is already hit, and the weapon is already fired.

I'm not arguing RAI. There is no precedent for flyers from which we can paint a reasonable RAI picture. Maybe it was entirely intended for the 175 point flyer to be able to wreck other flyers like it's nothing. Nothing about this has any bearing on what the rules actually say. What the rules actually say makes this situation painfully clear to people who have read ALL of the relevant rules, instead of stopping at Hard to Hit and ignoring parts that completely override it.

Got to say reading the thread RAW= hits everything the line goes through.

As it stand the death ray is by many peoples reactions OP and therefore not liked .

snakel wrote:Got to say reading the thread RAW= hits everything the line goes through.

As it stand the death ray is by many peoples reactions OP and therefore not liked .

The way I see it it's a 175 point way to either wreck parking lots, or at the very least a 175 point guaranteed S10 AP1 hit on anything on the board. Now it does the same thing, but you can only hit it on a six. Of course people don't like it. People don't like things they can't easily answer, and are quicker to call cheese than adapt their strategy.

Any other flyer can tear it apart (2/3rds of the damage table will nullify for a turn or stop it outright), and a quad-gun will nullify it the second it hits. Literally everyone has access to these via allies or fortifications.

I have to say I totally agree with Ostrakon on this one. He makes sense and some good points and untill we getproper FAQ I dont think this one can be 100 percent awnsered but I have to say i agree with 98% of what you are saying Ostrakon so i have to Bravo! HA