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i know im kinda flogging a dead mare but you can buy defence lines if the cover is lousy. I know its only 5+ now but infantry blobs are alot faster and alot more effective against vehicles. Blobs combined with armor are how i would role. i do think a totally blob list would be tuff.

This is going in a totally different direction than the OP, but is there a reason you're not going for Ogryns for your CC punch? I know you've liked them in the past, and have the models. Is it a points cost thing?

I thought aegis lines gave a 4+ cover save.

As for ogryn, they were... tricky in 5th ed, and they just became impossible now. Now, when you're in a close combat, you've got challenges to worry about, and, much more importantly, precise strikes on a T3 commissar. Basically all the problems with a power blob also apply here. Yes, lord comissars are better than regular commissars, but the price of their failure is much higher in the case of ogryn. Also, ogryn are now stuck at I2, even on the charge.

In a couple of weeks when I start playing again I'll be including ogryn, but more for their shooting prowess than their charge ability, methinks. They're going to be at least as good of a charge preventer, what with wound allocation closest and overwatch, than they will be a charge absorber.

I may be missing something here, but arnt ogryn even worse in this edition with the furious charge nerf. Overwatch gives them good counter punch abilities but for their points i think they still suffer their inherent 5th ed problems


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ailaros wrote:I thought aegis lines gave a 4+ cover save.

As for ogryn, they were... tricky in 5th ed, and they just became impossible now. Now, when you're in a close combat, you've got challenges to worry about, and, much more importantly, precise strikes on a T3 commissar. Basically all the problems with a power blob also apply here. Yes, lord comissars are better than regular commissars, but the price of their failure is much higher in the case of ogryn. Also, ogryn are now stuck at I2, even on the charge.

In a couple of weeks when I start playing again I'll be including ogryn, but more for their shooting prowess than their charge ability, methinks. They're going to be at least as good of a charge preventer, what with wound allocation closest and overwatch, than they will be a charge absorber.

Right, i dont have my book with me.

Ailaros wrote:

Ignatius wrote:Dual Power Fist! I don't have the codex in front of me, but I think you can do that. I know you can on the Lord Commissar. That's my favorite build

Regardless of its actual functionality I still vote this one. It's just too bad*** of a model. My Lord Commissar is my challenger. His job is to find the enemy's commander and take his body guard of unupgraded storm troopers and charge.

Yeah. I play for fun

But here's a question. Why even bother putting anything on your commander? Why not just take him as is, and use the points on other places. You really only take them for the orders anyways...

I'll be honest, I don't quite understand your fear of precise strikes. First a 6 is required, then a 2+ LOS! roll failed, then a successful wound, and a failed 5++. This only then kills him if it's S6. As far as challenges go, the Bone'head soaks them just fine, unless its advantageous for the LC. I've actually found them a lot less tricky, because I'm worried so much less about the Commissar. I do agree with you that their Overwatch fire is pretty great.

Ignatius wrote:Why even bother putting anything on your commander? Why not just take him as is, and use the points on other places. You really only take them for the orders anyways...

Targets of opportunity. I explain this on page 1. You never know when having a little bit of close combat will come in handy, even in an otherwise shooty list.

Biophysical wrote:I'll be honest, I don't quite understand your fear of precise strikes. First a 6 is required, then a 2+ LOS! roll failed, then a successful wound, and a failed 5++. This only then kills him if it's S6. As far as challenges go, the Bone'head soaks them just fine, unless its advantageous for the LC.

Okay.

I still sort of see them limited to the countercharge role, though. They weren't the best proactive thing in the world even in 5th ed backed up by a bunch of power blobs, and I don't see their proactivity increasing by any amount now.

As a small personal preference as well, if you take a CCS and a LC, the commissar has to be your warlord, which is a little unfortunate.

Ailaros wrote:Targets of opportunity. I explain this on page 1. You never know when having a little bit of close combat will come in handy, even in an otherwise shooty list.

I've been running an MSU shooty list and I've really found my semi-punchy CCS to be very handy in fending off small deep-striking units that would otherwise cause me lots of problems. They're not going to beat up a maxed out squad of anything but they pretty reliably beat up the remnants of deep striking Sternguard, Defffkoptas, bikes, Tactical Terminators, etc after I put a bit of fire into them. If I didn't have them I'd have to flex some infantry back around to prevent my gunline assets from getting chewed up and while the CCS is usually crippled afterwards it saves me a lot of hassle.

Mine isn't extremely beefed out, my Captain has a plasma pistol and powerfist, the squad has 2 bodyguards, a standard and a medic. It's a bit steep at 150 points for what it does but I just never seem to be able to kill those last two Sternguard or Tactical Terminators with shooting, no matter how much I shoot at them.