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Testify wrote:
RAW citation needed. You can't just say it's "obvious". Prove to me that swooping does not carry on. You can't, because no where in the rulebook does it say that swooping ends.

Pg 49:

"Changing Flight Mode: at the start of its move, a Flying Monstrous Creature must declare whether it is Swooping or Gliding until the start of its next turn".

So you stop Swooping at the beginning of your next turn, where you then must declare whether you will "Re-Swoop" (for lack of a better phrase) or Glide.

Iranna.

How could this need any kind of discussion?

Your swooping, you get shot, you fail your grounded test, you are now not swooping for the rest of the shooting and everyone else is hitting you on normal BS.

Your movement comes around, you choose to swoop again, you fly around vector striking things and shooting bolts and breathing on things or turning people into spawn.

Your opponents turn comes round again, they shoot, you fail your grounded test, rinse repeat.

Th0a wrote:How could this need any kind of discussion?

Your swooping, you get shot, you fail your grounded test, you are now not swooping for the rest of the shooting and everyone else is hitting you on normal BS.

Your movement comes around, you choose to swoop again, you fly around vector striking things and shooting bolts and breathing on things or turning people into spawn.

Your opponents turn comes round again, they shoot, you fail your grounded test, rinse repeat.

Because even though there are some obvious answers someone wishes to try to make a rules loop hole that everyone will use and thus become FAMOUS!

However once you become grounded you can be assaulted which a swooping MC cannot be. This creates a rules contradiction and breaks the game since the rules would say that you can be assaulted and you cannot be assaulted at the same time since you would be swooping and grounded at the same time. Thus the logical conclusion is that grounded replaces swooping and thus no longer benefit from the swooping rules.

Awesome FMCs rules as written do not stop swooping when grounded. But if you pull that on me your FMC doesn't get Relentless or Smash either as they do not have those special rules they instead have the as yet undefined Relentless Smash special (which therefore does nothing)...

I'm also not convinced to can arrive whilst swooping as you are required to move 12" when Swooping and prevented from doing so when deepstriking. So I don't see how you can be swooping when you arrive?

undertow wrote:

Testify wrote:

Kevlar wrote:
It seems pretty clear that being grounded is an effect that carries over to your next turn. Swooping and grounded are mutually exclusive states because if the model was still swooping you could not engage it in assault. Since grounded creatures can be engaged in assault they can obviously no longer be swooping.

RAW citation needed. You can't just say it's "obvious". Prove to me that swooping does not carry on. You can't, because no where in the rulebook does it say that swooping ends.

Except where it says at the beginning of the FMC's move, the controller chooses either Swooping or Gliding until the model's next turn. Page 49. In plain sight.

Right, so where does it say that the FMC is no longer what it previously was? Permissive ruleset dude.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Iranna wrote:
So you stop Swooping at the beginning of your next turn, where you then must declare whether you will "Re-Swoop" (for lack of a better phrase) or Glide.

That is your interpretation. By the same logic that a grounded monstrous creature is still swooping, it must also be swooping for the rest of the game, since at no point do the rules tell you that it is no longer swooping.

Bloodhorror wrote:Okay this is the situation.

Fateweaver is swooping on the turn he arrives from deepstrike.

So I've started a topic about this specific aspect here, as I've seen we already have 4 pg debate on grounded vs still swooping, etc. But seems like I can bring it up here also. Can someone show me in the rules where it gives permission to be swooping when you deepstrike a FMC? You only count as having moved, without a distance stated. For vehicles it gives the cruising speed distinction (6.1"), but nowhere does it say your FMC counts as having moved 12". You can't swoop if you didn't move at least 12", so how is that legal? Seems like you're supposed to come in upon the only legal choice of movement, gliding.

Th0a wrote:How could this need any kind of discussion?

Your swooping, you get shot, you fail your grounded test, you are now not swooping for the rest of the shooting and everyone else is hitting you on normal BS.

Yup. Welcome to ymdc

DW wrote:

Bloodhorror wrote:Okay this is the situation.

Fateweaver is swooping on the turn he arrives from deepstrike.

So I've started a topic about this specific aspect here, as I've seen we already have 4 pg debate on grounded vs still swooping, etc. But seems like I can bring it up here also. Can someone show me in the rules where it gives permission to be swooping when you deepstrike a FMC? You only count as having moved, without a distance stated. For vehicles it gives the cruising speed distinction (6.1"), but nowhere does it say your FMC counts as having moved 12". You can't swoop if you didn't move at least 12", so how is that legal? Seems like you're supposed to come in upon the only legal choice of movement, gliding.

It states that FMCs coming in from reserves declare whether they are swooping or gliding. I see your point in what you are looking for, but I think you are just looking to break the rules at this point. I don't have the brb in front of me, but doesn't a vehicle coming in via deepstrike count as moving as cruising speed? I would make the case that a similar analogy is true for FMC, but there are no rules to really back this up.

As for the grounded FMC debate, I think you have to play it as the monster is on the grounded and no longer swooping.
Otherwise, you run into all sorts of rules problems. If the FMC is assaulted and can move normally the next turn, can it just swoop away and leave the combat? Or, you could claim that it cannot move as it is locked in assault and still claim swooping. Since you then cannot move 18", the model crashes again. I cannot think of a reason why you would want to do this other than to kill off your FMC in the movement phase in order to shoot at a unit.

RAW, the monster remains hard to hit and needs to take a grounding test for every unit that hits it, even if it has failed a previous grounding test (despite flying in the face of common sense) No one I know has played it that way yet, and this just seems to be a YMDC issue.

Green is Best! wrote:RAW, the monster remains hard to hit and needs to take a grounding test for every unit that hits it, even if it has failed a previous grounding test (despite flying in the face of common sense) No one I know has played it that way yet, and this just seems to be a YMDC issue.

Actually me and a friend had a test game, the monster tends to die easier this way.

HoverBoy wrote:

Green is Best! wrote:RAW, the monster remains hard to hit and needs to take a grounding test for every unit that hits it, even if it has failed a previous grounding test (despite flying in the face of common sense) No one I know has played it that way yet, and this just seems to be a YMDC issue.

Actually me and a friend had a test game, the monster tends to die easier this way.

No, they tend to die when I run them. Last time I ran FMCs:

1st DP hit, fails test, takes wound hitting the ground. Dies.
2nd Fateweaver hits. Fails test. Hits ground. Fails both invuls. Then runs away.
3rd DP hit. Fails test. takes wound. Dies from follow on shots.

I took 3 grounding tests and failed all 3. Once fateweaver took off, I knew it was over.

Testify wrote:

Iranna wrote:
So you stop Swooping at the beginning of your next turn, where you then must declare whether you will "Re-Swoop" (for lack of a better phrase) or Glide.

That is your interpretation. By the same logic that a grounded monstrous creature is still swooping, it must also be swooping for the rest of the game, since at no point do the rules tell you that it is no longer swooping.

I'm sorry, there is no other interpretation:

the word "until" in the sentence shows that the model Swoops UNTIL it is required to declare it's Flight Type again - at the start of the next turn.

Iranna.

Thread terminated; we've had this conversation recently. There is no clear answer. Calling ANYONE moronic is going to get you in trouble.