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Phanatik wrote:"Some" is right, as about 47% of Americans pay NO income taxes.
That oft-quoted fact doesn't seem to hold up. Someone pulled this on another forum and then couldn't back it up with data.
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I don't think the athletes pay those expenses, do they? I assume the US Gov pays them. Can you claim deductions for expenses you didn't incur yourself?
The most taxes I've ever done is getting $300 bucks back on crappy summer jobs
LordofHats wrote:I don't think the athletes pay those expenses, do they? I assume the US Gov pays them. Can you claim deductions for expenses you didn't incur yourself?
The most taxes I've ever done is getting $300 bucks back on crappy summer jobs
If the US government would actually pay for any of their expenses they might actually be able to complain about them wearing made-in-china uniforms.
But the athletes are pretty much self funded. Some compete in college and get help paying for their training that way, but a majority of them are on their own. They might have a job, but they train on their free time, pay for their own coaches, etc..
One of the Olympic wrestlers goes to my church and we took up a donation to help cover his expenses.
Sponsorship I heard a long time ago pays their way
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They didn't win those. Someone had to build the roads to get them to their training camps, string the wires nad generate the electricty that kept the lights on, pipe the water to the place so that they wouldn't dehydrate. We won those trophies, not them.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
Frazzled wrote:They didn't win those. Someone had to build the roads to get them to their training camps, string the wires nad generate the electricty that kept the lights on, pipe the water to the place so that they wouldn't dehydrate. We won those trophies, not them.
Frazzled wrote:They didn't win those. Someone had to build the roads to get them to their training camps, string the wires nad generate the electricty that kept the lights on, pipe the water to the place so that they wouldn't dehydrate. We won those trophies, not them.
That's pretty much what Obama said.
Corrected your typo.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
Yeah, that link already disproves it in the first sentence:
Close to half of U.S. households currently do not owe federal income tax. The Urban Institute-Brookings Tax Policy Center estimates that 46 percent of households will owe no federal income tax for 2011.
There's a big difference between not paying and not owing.
These figures cover only the federal income tax and ignore the substantial amounts of other federal taxes — especially the payroll tax — that many of these households pay. As a result, these figures greatly overstate the share of households that do not pay federal taxes.
Most of the people who pay neither federal income tax nor payroll taxes are low-income people who are elderly, unable to work due to a serious disability, or students, most of whom subsequently become taxpayers
Moreover, low-income households as a group do, in fact, pay federal taxes. Congressional Budget Office data show that the poorest fifth of households paid an average of 4.0 percent of their incomes in federal taxes in 2007, the latest year for which these data are available — not an insignificant amount given how modest these households’ incomes are; the poorest fifth of households had average income of $18,400 in 2007.[6] The next-to-the bottom fifth — those with incomes between $20,500 and $34,300 in 2007 — paid an average of 10.6 percent of their incomes in federal taxes.
When all federal, state, and local taxes are taken into account, the bottom fifth of households pays about 16 percent of their incomes in taxes, on average. The second-poorest fifth pays about 21 percent.[8]
The figure is substantially misleading.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Frazzled wrote:
d-usa wrote:
Frazzled wrote:They didn't win those. Someone had to build the roads to get them to their training camps, string the wires nad generate the electricty that kept the lights on, pipe the water to the place so that they wouldn't dehydrate. We won those trophies, not them.
That's pretty much what Obama said.
Corrected your typo.
Actually, Obama said it about business people. Romney said it about Olympians.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/02 20:00:16
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Frazzled wrote:They didn't win those. Someone had to build the roads to get them to their training camps, string the wires nad generate the electricty that kept the lights on, pipe the water to the place so that they wouldn't dehydrate. We won those trophies, not them.
Romney has a great point about Olympians and Obama has a great point about businesses. None of us can do it alone. Why would you even want to? What an ugly, depressing fantasy to have.
No one is given money by the Olympics itself for winning an Olympic event. It is up to each individual country to reward it's Olympic athletes however it sees fit.
US athletes are rewarded by the United States Olympic Committee (which is a non-profit organization based in Colorado).
So, these are US Citizens, getting paid by a US organization, with US dollars.
Phanatik wrote:"Some" is right, as about 47% of Americans pay NO income taxes.
That oft-quoted fact doesn't seem to hold up. Someone pulled this on another forum and then couldn't back it up with data.
First of all, I reserve the right to express my opinion with absolutely no concern for producing one shred of evidence to support it. If it floats someone's boat (and they can do so) to produce evidence to refute my opinion, so be it. I'm a big boy and I can take it.
But just because I want to - I was referring to not paying federal income taxes, which is the point of this thread. This is from Forbes:
The truth is that most American adults pay federal taxes. The data point that Drudge has mangled here is that only about
122 million Americans pay federal personal income tax—and most who don’t pay other federal taxes.
Cheers,
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"To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield." -Alfred, Lord Tennyson
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Right, which is intentionally misleading every time it is brought up. Federal Income Tax doesn't include a host of other taxes. It is always brought up to show that some folks don't pay their fair share.
Anyways...
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pretre wrote:There's a big difference between not paying and not owing.
Equating a statement that around 50% of people don't pay federal income taxes with that they owe taxes but aren't paying displays an error in discernment.
(Unless I worked for the IRS, I would not overly care who isn't paying the taxes they owed.)
Cheers,
"Stop worrying about it and just get naked." - Mrs. Phanatik
"To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield." -Alfred, Lord Tennyson
Frazzled - "When the Great Wienie comes, you will have a favored place among his Chosen. "
MachineSpirit - "Quick Reply has been temporarily disabled due to a recent warning you received."
I wonder if I was included in that 47% of not owing taxes. Didn't pay taxes almost three years out of five years.
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
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RIP Muhammad Ali.
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pretre wrote:There's a big difference between not paying and not owing.
Equating a statement that around 50% of people don't pay federal income taxes with that they owe taxes but aren't paying displays an error in discernment.
No, it just means that the original facts say that almost 50% of people don't owe. Saying that they don't pay is a vastly different statement.
Not owing taxes means you weren't responsible for paying any taxes.
Not paying means you didn't pay any.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Jihadin wrote:I wonder if I was included in that 47% of not owing taxes. Didn't pay taxes almost three years out of five years.
Did you not pay or did you not file? Big difference.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/02 20:44:36
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Hazardous duty. US military on deployment do not pay taxes while deployed (any taxes, some for obvious reasons). Mainly it refers strickly to payroll, as you don't get that deducted while deployed. When income tax comes around you get all of it back for the times you were deployed.
pretre wrote:There's a big difference between not paying and not owing.
Equating a statement that around 50% of people don't pay federal income taxes with that they owe taxes but aren't paying displays an error in discernment.
No, it just means that the original facts say that almost 50% of people don't owe. Saying that they don't pay is a vastly different statement.
Not owing taxes means you weren't responsible for paying any taxes.
Not paying means you didn't pay any.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Jihadin wrote:I wonder if I was included in that 47% of not owing taxes. Didn't pay taxes almost three years out of five years.
Did you not pay or did you not file? Big difference.
Again, the only colloquial usage of the phrase "not paying taxes" that I am aware of only refers to doesn't pay, not that they owed but didn't pay.
Cheers,
"Stop worrying about it and just get naked." - Mrs. Phanatik
"To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield." -Alfred, Lord Tennyson
Frazzled - "When the Great Wienie comes, you will have a favored place among his Chosen. "
MachineSpirit - "Quick Reply has been temporarily disabled due to a recent warning you received."
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
Phanatik wrote:Again, the only colloquial usage of the phrase "not paying taxes" that I am aware of only refers to doesn't pay, not that they owed but didn't pay.
The majority of people who work in the US have taxes deducted from their check. They pay taxes. If at the end of the year you do not owe as much tax as you paid, you receive that back. Hence, almost everyone pays taxes. Not everyone owes taxes.
As well, some people who owe taxes do not pay them. I.e. they make income but do not file or file and do not pay the required amount.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Jihadin wrote:lol well I filed all 5 yrs at once.
Chances are you then paid taxes but did not owe for those years.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/02 20:51:48
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Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
Aha, so yes, you were included for those three years.
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Considering they always go on to earn a couple million bucks once they get a gold medal, is it a big deal they pay a few grand on the actual medal?
We are arming Syrian rebels who support ISIS, who is fighting Iran, who is fighting Iraq who we also support against ISIS, while fighting Kurds who we support while they are fighting Syrian rebels.
Aerethan wrote:If an American WORKS in a different country, their wages(which wouldn't likely be in USD) should be taxed according to that countries laws, not the US's.
Basically you are telling me that if I move to Japan to teach English, I'll have to pay income tax here in the US on it? After all, my citizenship status remains American.
That is ludicrous. Also, why are we heavily taxing those who's only purpose is to promote a positive national image?
To provide a useful but dull answer, if you earn money abroad without being resident abroad for particularly long, then your earnings are taxed in your principal state of residence, because doing otherwise would be insanely cumbersome to administrate. If you went to Japan for more than a few weeks, and went with the intention of pursuing paid employment, then you would indeed pay taxes there instead, probably assessed at the local basic rate, without a personal allowance (the initial portion of your income which is untaxed). On your return to the US, however, you would be entitled to deduct the tax you had already paid from your US taxable income, meaning that you wouldn't pay any more, but neither would you be able to abuse the system by paying taxes in two states and thus claiming two sets of personal allowances.
The reason things like prize money are taxed (either as income or as capital gains, depending upon a state's tax laws) is that doing otherwise would provide an easily-exploitable loophole for tax evasion, by reclassifying earned income as such. And, to be honest, your athletes aren't being taxed 'heavily', they're being taxed at the standard rate. Presuming that US tax laws work like those over here, indeed, they, since they are engaged in a profession which pays in large, infrequent and irregular intervals, will be entitled to average their prize money income over a number of years, meaning that a college student athlete who is otherwise earning little or no income and thus paying no tax, will be able effectively to greatly reduce their taxable income by deducting from it several years' worth of unused personal allowances, and pay little or indeed no tax.
(My knowledge of income tax comes from having worked in the past as an excise inspector, a similar thing, but not quite the same, and is as such not guranteed to be perfectly accurate.)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/03 00:11:53
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Right, this is income, but when a company hides its money in the Cayman Islands, it's not income to be taxed.
And when a corporation, who is considered a separate legal entity, earns an income, it's not supposed to be taxed either, if you listen to Republicans.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/08/03 00:16:27
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Melissia wrote:Right, this is income, but when a company hides its money in the Cayman Islands, it's not income to be taxed.
I believe what actually happens is that the income earned by the corporation is taxed by the U.S. at the time that it is earned. What is left is then hidden away in the Cayman islands, where the United States does not have the jurisdiction to tax how wealth is invested and stored.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/03 00:19:33
Well, the income earned in the US anyway. Some of it.
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
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