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Why would they include the word "your" turn 2 if they meant for all reserves to come in at the beginning of a turn? Obviously "your" turn signifies the reserves are being rolled for by the active player.

Anyone who tries to argue otherwise is just being ridiculous.

I feel that Fafnir is just playing devils advocate and won't play this in a real game of 40k. Assuming you play 40k Fafnir.

hes probably just trying to make people mad by arguing something so stupid..

Overlord Zerrtin wrote:IF it was supposed to be played like this stupid nonsense then there ABSOLUTELY would have had a secion or two about it to explain and there isnt so you wouldnt

They do have a section or two to explain it. Page 124 of the rulebook, under "Reserves."

Testify wrote:
RAW is you roll for your own units at the start of your own turn.

RAW very clearly states that you roll for "models in reserve." It does not discriminate between friend or foe.

Kevlar wrote:Why would they include the word "your" turn 2 if they meant for all reserves to come in at the beginning of a turn? Obviously "your" turn signifies the reserves are being rolled for by the active player.

Anyone who tries to argue otherwise is just being ridiculous.

Well, obviously, as the rulebook says, you (the active player) roll for the reserves. It's just that, as written, you roll for every unit in reserves, friend or foe. You do so on "your" turn, and your opponent does so on "his/hers."

ObliviousBlueCaboose wrote:I feel that Fafnir is just playing devils advocate and won't play this in a real game of 40k. Assuming you play 40k Fafnir.

Shush. And of course I play 40k. I actually just had a wonderful game earlier today even.


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Overlord Zerrtin wrote:hes probably just trying to make people mad by arguing something so stupid..

I suggest you don't get so emotionally invested. Get mad about the rules being so poorly written. Don't be made about someone following them.

Fafnir wrote:

RAW very clearly states that you roll for "models in reserve." It does not discriminate between friend or foe.

So why are you assuming it means both?

im not emotionaly invested? im pointing out how the rules are supposed to be played the right way?

Testify wrote:

Fafnir wrote:

RAW very clearly states that you roll for "models in reserve." It does not discriminate between friend or foe.

So why are you assuming it means both?

Page 124 of the rulebook:

"At the start of your turn, roll for any units remaining in reserve..."

Any implies all, and no exceptions are noted, for friendly or enemy units alike, which means you roll for all units


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Overlord Zerrtin wrote:im not emotionaly invested? im pointing out how the rules are supposed to be played the right way?

Clearly not, since the rules say otherwise.

Look at it this way.

I could take Coteaz an that Necron bugger that steals the initiative on a 4-5-6. I would always go first and I could field 10 flyers 1 Storm Raven an 9 of those necron flyers, or I could go 3 Storm Ravens an 3 of those Necron buggers and then when your flyers come on top of turn two I kill them.

WOOOOHOOOOO!!!!!! I WIN ALL THE TIME!!!!! GIVE ME A COOKIE!!!!

see how ridiculous all that sounds.

I believe that the MOST IMPORTANT RULE says to come to a consensual agreement with your opponent or allow a roll-off to settle disputes...you and your opponent can agree to roll for each others' reserves, you can agree to roll for your own reserves, you can let a roll-off decide, you can choose not to play with reserves if you so want. Arguing this is a moot point. Meeting adjourned.

valace2 wrote: Look at it this way.

I could take Coteaz an that Necron bugger that steals the initiative on a 4-5-6. I would always go first and I could field 10 flyers 1 Storm Raven an 9 of those necron flyers, or I could go 3 Storm Ravens an 3 of those Necron buggers and then when your flyers come on top of turn two I kill them.

WOOOOHOOOOO!!!!!! I WIN ALL THE TIME!!!!! GIVE ME A COOKIE!!!!

see how ridiculous all that sounds.

So?

MedicalMonstrosity wrote:I believe that the MOST IMPORTANT RULE says to come to a consensual agreement with your opponent or allow a roll-off to settle disputes...you and your opponent can agree to roll for each others' reserves, you can agree to roll for your own reserves, you can let a roll-off decide, you can choose not to play with reserves if you so want. Arguing this is a moot point. Meeting adjourned.

The "most important rule" is a cop-out. I could use such a "solution" to argue for every single rule that I don't like.

Fafnir wrote:

Testify wrote:

Fafnir wrote:

RAW very clearly states that you roll for "models in reserve." It does not discriminate between friend or foe.

So why are you assuming it means both?

Page 124 of the rulebook:

"At the start of your turn, roll for any units remaining in reserve..."

Any implies all, and no exceptions are noted, for friendly or enemy units alike, which means you roll for all units

Bingo. If it implies, then you are inferring.
You are inferring it and insisting it is RAW, despite the fact that you admit you are inferring it.


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Fafnir wrote:
The "most important rule" is a cop-out. I could use such a "solution" to argue for every single rule that I don't like.

Boy, wouldn't it be rubbish if you had to rely on other people's opinions rather than logical rulesets...

"at the start of your turn roll or all units remaining in reserve"
Your implies you does it not? as in your units in reserve?

Testify wrote:

Fafnir wrote:

Testify wrote:

Fafnir wrote:

RAW very clearly states that you roll for "models in reserve." It does not discriminate between friend or foe.

So why are you assuming it means both?

Page 124 of the rulebook:

"At the start of your turn, roll for any units remaining in reserve..."

Any implies all, and no exceptions are noted, for friendly or enemy units alike, which means you roll for all units

Bingo. If it implies, then you are inferring.
You are inferring it and insisting it is RAW, despite the fact that you admit you are inferring it.

Fine.

Any:

1. one, a, an, or some; one or more without specification or identification: If you have any witnesses, produce them. Pick out any six you like.


Thus, without specification or identification, you roll for reserves. This means you disregard who the unit belongs to.

Fafnir wrote:Fine.

Any:

1. one, a, an, or some; one or more without specification or identification: If you have any witnesses, produce them. Pick out any six you like.

"without specification".
You have infered that it specifies "both". It has not.

Testify wrote:

Fafnir wrote:Fine.

Any:

1. one, a, an, or some; one or more without specification or identification: If you have any witnesses, produce them. Pick out any six you like.

"without specification".
You have infered that it specifies "both". It has not.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/any?s=t&ld=1089

Read Definition 4.

Fafnir wrote:

Testify wrote:

Fafnir wrote:Fine.

Any:

1. one, a, an, or some; one or more without specification or identification: If you have any witnesses, produce them. Pick out any six you like.

"without specification".
You have infered that it specifies "both". It has not.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/any?s=t&ld=1089

Read Definition 4.

Again, you're inferring definition 4. The context doesn't specify which meaning, and you are inferring one.

Fafnir wrote:

RAW very clearly states that you roll for "models in reserve." It does not discriminate between friend or foe.

Kevlar wrote:Why would they include the word "your" turn 2 if they meant for all reserves to come in at the beginning of a turn? Obviously "your" turn signifies the reserves are being rolled for by the active player.

Anyone who tries to argue otherwise is just being ridiculous.

Well, obviously, as the rulebook says, you (the active player) roll for the reserves. It's just that, as written, you roll for every unit in reserves, friend or foe. You do so on "your" turn, and your opponent does so on "his/hers."

You are just being silly. When are you ever allowed to roll anything for your opponent's minatures in 40k? Would you argue to roll for their shooting and assault rolls in your player turn too?

Psychotroke grenades let me do just that. Lash of submission and Pavane of Slaanesh even let you move your opponent's models.

Fafnir wrote:Psychotroke grenades let me do just that. Lash of submission and Pavane of Slaanesh even let you move your opponent's models.

so when i roll to wound and kill your models i am rolling against your models not for them and the same applies with the grenades.

This is silly, though. A unit can only move during the controlling player's movement phase (barring special rules like lash). If your opponent rolls something, and you want to say that your units can come in from reserves, fine, they're available, but they can't move onto the board, so it's a moot point.

and with lash the power specifiacaly states you may move the models the rulebook does not say You may roll for your opponents reserves

Overlord Zerrtin wrote:and with lash the power specifiacaly states you may move the models the rulebook does not say You may roll for your opponents reserves

You're not rolling for your opponent though. You're making your own rolls. They just so happen to apply to your opponent's units.


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Ailaros wrote:This is silly, though. A unit can only move during the controlling player's movement phase (barring special rules like lash). If your opponent rolls something, and you want to say that your units can come in from reserves, fine, they're available, but they can't move onto the board, so it's a moot point.

The specific rules of the reserves section would override the general ruling. As such, it would work just fine.

Well, fine being relative to dividing by zero.

As the rule starts off saying 'your turn' I will take it to mean that i must roll for only my reserves.

If I follow Fafnir's logic I will have to roll for reserves in every single 40k game currently being played...... I don't have that much free time.

I think we can dispense with this. If you must discuss, YMDC is more appropriate, but keep it civil.