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 LoneLictor wrote:

riverhawks wrote:Fallen! True CSM? Night Lords...Konrad was a BAWZ, and winning a war with fear? Yes please!

I always felt that the Night Lords were overspecialized. Yes, fear based warfare would definitely work well against some Imperial Guardsmen or a small Ork settlement, but it's no use against quite a few factions. Space Marines don't know fear and are specialized in actual combat, so the Night Lords would get their arses handed to 'em. Same goes for Tyranids and Necrons. The Night Lords are dependent on the other Traitor Legions when it comes down to actual, straight forward combat.

I think they mix psychological warfare with hit-and-run and guerrilla warfare...
It's simply another tactic they use but they use it appropriately.

 purplefood wrote:

 LoneLictor wrote:

riverhawks wrote:Fallen! True CSM? Night Lords...Konrad was a BAWZ, and winning a war with fear? Yes please!

I always felt that the Night Lords were overspecialized. Yes, fear based warfare would definitely work well against some Imperial Guardsmen or a small Ork settlement, but it's no use against quite a few factions. Space Marines don't know fear and are specialized in actual combat, so the Night Lords would get their arses handed to 'em. Same goes for Tyranids and Necrons. The Night Lords are dependent on the other Traitor Legions when it comes down to actual, straight forward combat.

I think they mix psychological warfare with hit-and-run and guerrilla warfare...
It's simply another tactic they use but they use it appropriately.

Well you combine fear propaganda with blitzkrieg attacks and guerrilla warfare, only a space marine/cron/bug wouldn't run, at which time they would change up the tactics to even more hard hitting assaults and less fear propaganda.

I have always found the Word Bearers interesting. To be honest of all the fallen Legions the only ones I can even begin to feel anything for are:

The Word Bearers because they were so utterly betrayed.
The Thousand Sons see the above.
and recently the Alpha Legion because it appears their storyline is way more interesting than I previously thought.

World Eaters are just crazed maniacs led by a crazed maniac. Not too enticing imo.
Death Guard are not interesting to me at all, maybe once their HH novel comes out that will change.
Emperors Children as a Pre Heresey force are very interesting but post fall to chaos are rather bland and a bit ott silly.
Night Lords lol no thanks, Primarch Batman doesn't interest me even after the slight bit he has been featured.
Black Legion changed names 3 times and is led by a 13 time over failure.
Iron Warriors thus far in the story arch have very little personality and would need some flushing out imo.

Please note this only takes into account the current HH novels. Any novel taking place in the 40k universe is not taken into account by me for this question since i view the two fluff lines to be so different as to not be compatible.

Horus Heresy-era, it's the Word Bearers, since the whole thing hinges on their actions.

Currently, it's the Night Lords, because ADB is awesome.

My vote goes with the Thousand Sons despite me liking the World Eaters the most.

Come on guys. They were loyalists who got annihilated by the Space Wolves.

They had divergent Legion organisation.

The Rubric.

Ahriman's quest for the Black Library.

In second I think the Black Legion have the most interesting history since they bounced back from annihilation and stuff to being awesome dark crusaders.

I don't really like the Night Lords history.

Realm of Chaos/ Index Astartes era Emperors Children fluff has been my favorite and what bought me to the service of the Dark Prince.

Also the background for the Violators is pretty cool.

 Pilau Rice wrote:
Realm of Chaos/ Index Astartes era Emperors Children fluff has been my favorite and what bought me to the service of the Dark Prince.

Also the background for the Violators is pretty cool.

Agree - as much I'am SW fan there is something about EC which I always like - people always portray them as pretty girls but when it comes to dueling finesse they are second to none....

I actually like ALL the chaos legions, including the Fallen half of the Dark Angels Legion.

World Eaters, imho, are not just crazed butchers. They are Gladiators, and proud of it. Go watch any Spartacus movie/series, and press stop right before they get to the "I'm Spartacus" scene, (thinking of the kirk douglas spartacus here" and basicly Imagine Spartacus being abducted by "aliens", cheated of a death with his comrades, or even given a chance to save them. Add in an implant to the brain that ramps up adrenaline like a kid on a serious suger rush in a toy store, but only allows you to feel at calm, serenity, in the midst of battle, and there you have Angron.

My main trouble with World eaters and deathguard, is how to tackle flyers, as I have a hard time imagening the world eaters hunkering down in defence, utilising a quad gun, and I have trouble imagining a nurglified version of the new chaos flyer... Then again, neither Mortarion nor Angron were stupid. Heck, there's mention of the world eaters using whirlwinds in the fluff...

The only legions I have trouble with imagining working flufflike on the battlefield, are Alpha and nightlords, as most of what they actually DO, have little effect on the tabletop, the espionage, sneaking around, sabotage and occasional mysterious slaughterhouse mass murder taking place before the battle. In truth, the times that these legions do their thing, "just as planned" there's usually no battle afterwards. Though this sounds for alphas like it'll be a bit mitigated by the inclusion of cultists, and allies. And if the rumour of an undivided mark causing FEAR (usr), the nightlords are a tad mitigated aswell.

/Calle

I'm going to go at this from a different direction because your not just asking which legion is the coolest fluff wise, but your actually planning on making an army.

Which IMO is all about the models. You can write novels of fluff about your army to your hearts content, but for 3 hours you have to look down upon them and your fluff doesn't matter. Also, if the play style of the army isn't too your liking, you wont enjoy using the army either. Also a legions fluff can dictate how it should be played on the table top. Using a bunch of raptors and guys in funny hats, but painting them like Iron Warriors (because you like the colors) really doesn't work in a showcase type of modeling environment.

So along those lines what models do you like? What army play style do you prefer?

IMO - EC has some very sweet models. I love old metal damonettes, and you can have a lot of fun with the color pallet, and there are little to no restrictions on what units you can bring.
TS - Ruberic marines look pretty cool and an Egyptian theme goes pretty nice. You can also get away with fielding a lot of terminators and staying fluffy.
Night Lords and Khorne guys are just marines in funny hats. I will however give a slight nod to Juggernaughts. Those things are pretty cool.
If you dig obliterators and heavy armor - Iron Warriors might be the one for you.
If your confident with your Green stuff skills, Nurgle based armies can be a ton of fun to convert and look very striking on the table top. Also the unit choices are pretty wide.
If you want to field a lot of deamons, then Word Bearers are your go to guys.
Black Legion is lowest on my list because they are pretty much just spiky marines. I play chaos because of the different models from marines, but that's just me personally.

 LoneLictor wrote:

riverhawks wrote:Fallen! True CSM? Night Lords...Konrad was a BAWZ, and winning a war with fear? Yes please!

I always felt that the Night Lords were overspecialized. Yes, fear based warfare would definitely work well against some Imperial Guardsmen or a small Ork settlement, but it's no use against quite a few factions. Space Marines don't know fear and are specialized in actual combat, so the Night Lords would get their arses handed to 'em. Same goes for Tyranids and Necrons. The Night Lords are dependent on the other Traitor Legions when it comes down to actual, straight forward combat.

Exactly. As I said in my post, they are not warriors and have no real hope of winning a fair fight. The Night Lords are an army of terrorists given power armor and an excuse to burn worlds. Their tactics worked well for them when they were subjugating worlds for the Imperium, but have not been the best in recent days where they are reduced to piratical raiding bands striking Imperial outposts when they're left undefended. This dilemma makes them more compelling to me than say the World Eaters that just trample whatever is in their path or the Alpha Legion that subverts a populace with their infiltrators until it destroys itself.

The Night Lords use the bat motif for the fear in inspires, but they are more akin to vultures.

I find the Night Lords are the most believable legion in their motivation. It's nice that most of them don't chase after this abstract idea of favour from the chaos gods and that they're evil because they were criminals before they became space marines. Makes them seem extremely real. So they're my favourite fluffwise.

 Haunter! wrote:

 LoneLictor wrote:

riverhawks wrote:Fallen! True CSM? Night Lords...Konrad was a BAWZ, and winning a war with fear? Yes please!

I always felt that the Night Lords were overspecialized. Yes, fear based warfare would definitely work well against some Imperial Guardsmen or a small Ork settlement, but it's no use against quite a few factions. Space Marines don't know fear and are specialized in actual combat, so the Night Lords would get their arses handed to 'em. Same goes for Tyranids and Necrons. The Night Lords are dependent on the other Traitor Legions when it comes down to actual, straight forward combat.

Exactly. As I said in my post, they are not warriors and have no real hope of winning a fair fight. The Night Lords are an army of terrorists given power armor and an excuse to burn worlds. Their tactics worked well for them when they were subjugating worlds for the Imperium, but have not been the best in recent days where they are reduced to piratical raiding bands striking Imperial outposts when they're left undefended. This dilemma makes them more compelling to me than say the World Eaters that just trample whatever is in their path or the Alpha Legion that subverts a populace with their infiltrators until it destroys itself.

The Night Lords use the bat motif for the fear in inspires, but they are more akin to vultures.

The Night Lord dislike is funny since your handle is Haunter! I originally assumed it was an homage to the Night Haunter.

I suggest that you read the Night Lord series by ADB. There are plenty of examples of them winning in straight up fights. Most of their missions are pretty straight forward fights. Highlights include winning a boarding action against Blood Angels. Knocking out a titan with a Land Raider and a flyer.

Also Night Haunter beat Dorn in a fight (The Dark King) and would have beaten the Lion if not for help from a Dark Angel captain (Age of Darkness). The Age of Darkness story also hints at a protracted war against the Dark Angels where the legions were evenly matched.

So I think there is plenty of evidence that the Night Lords could do well in a stand up fight.

The Emperor's Children. Oh how the mighty have fallen. Formerly perfections, hoping to see to it that humanity reaches its manifest destiny, the only legion allowed to wear the aquila over their chest, having been reduced to roving bands who simply seek their next pleasure high. The only remnants of their former pursuit of perfection are Fabius Bile and the breakaway faction known as the Flawless Host, neither of which have any direct relations with the Emperor's Children anymore.

bogalubov wrote:
The Age of Darkness story also hints at a protracted war against the Dark Angels where the legions were evenly matched.

So I think there is plenty of evidence that the Night Lords could do well in a stand up fight.

The war was protracted because the Night Lords avoided any direct engagements. They played guerrilla warfare. In an open battle, they could not match the First Legion.

 Omegus wrote:

bogalubov wrote:
The Age of Darkness story also hints at a protracted war against the Dark Angels where the legions were evenly matched.

So I think there is plenty of evidence that the Night Lords could do well in a stand up fight.

The war was protracted because the Night Lords avoided any direct engagements. They played guerrilla warfare. In an open battle, they could not match the First Legion.

The story also said that whenever the primarchs were involved the other legion would get pummeled. That suggests that the Lion also fought against isolated stragglers from the Night Lords and wasn't always looking to fight the biggest battle possible.

Regardless, the other examples I gave show the martial prowess of the Night Lords just as well.

 LoneLictor wrote:

riverhawks wrote:Fallen! True CSM? Night Lords...Konrad was a BAWZ, and winning a war with fear? Yes please!

I always felt that the Night Lords were overspecialized. Yes, fear based warfare would definitely work well against some Imperial Guardsmen or a small Ork settlement, but it's no use against quite a few factions. Space Marines don't know fear and are specialized in actual combat, so the Night Lords would get their arses handed to 'em. Same goes for Tyranids and Necrons. The Night Lords are dependent on the other Traitor Legions when it comes down to actual, straight forward combat.

The fact that they basically embarrassed every single Marine chapter they went up against despite being outnumbered and outgunned in the Night Lords trilogy kind of directly contradicts the idea that they're helpless if they can't use terror tactics.

I like Black Legion because they're like the Ultramarines of the Traitors. They are the largest and therefore can (within the fluff) field almost anything from the Chaos armoury. Their tactic of Speartip is cool, Abaddon is a boss. Better to fail 13 times and have a blast than just fail once and give up forever (ie ALL the demon primarchs).

I still really like all the legions though, and after reading "Legion" I have a new found respect for the Alpha Legion, however difficult it would be to replicate their style in a Tabletop environment. It almost seems they'd be far better suited to a roleplaying game. Traitors have plenty of fluff and it's mostly pretty good, Iron Warriors could be fleshed out a bit more though. Also special mention to the Fallen, from my interpretation they're the loyal ones and the DA should be wiped by the Inquisition.

I really like the Night Lords myself.

+1 to the Black Legion. Their fluff and their paint scheme are both really good IMO.

War Hounds, if only for the tiny bit of fluff they have before Angron took over. The story from Tales of Heresy is a great glimpse of the minds of Kharn and Angron

Oh, and Night Lords are interesting too - I recommen the books by Aaron Dembski.

Lately I've been trying to learn more about Iron warriors.
I used to avoid them like the plague in 3.5 as they were a bit OP back then, and easily abusable...

Now, I'm seeing the pull of using allied guard or cultists as bulletcatchers, and using big arse artillery to pound the enemy

Could someone fill me out a bit? They're one of my few fluffholes.. I just know what's in their lexicanum, and the short story in the Horus heresy books...

//Calle

I like the Salamanders because of their tribal nature and the fact that even though they are the most guardian-like chapter when it comes to civilians, they have a monstrous look to them. Also more flamers and meltas - yes plox. Also Vulcan is a beast killing 100 deldar dudes with smith hammers, tossing raider platforms around and beating incubi to death with his fists.

Mantis Warriors are pretty cool, they outsmart dark eldar, use special sniper teams (not scouts but fully fledged battle brothers) hide their ships and vehicles in the sand for ambushes.

TS and EC also, especially before and during the HH.


And damn i used the word "also" a lot in this post ...

I always really hated Chaos Marines. I thought the whole concept was ridiculous. (And for most of them, still think that.)

I like reading the various novels and short stories in the Black Library, however, and was pleasantly surprised when I found Aaron Dembski-Bowden's Night Lords series. I think that he gives them a phenomenal backstory. If you've read Legion by Dan Abnett then I might also give the nod to the Alpha Legion. Out of the original Legions, these are the only two worth a toss with respect to the canon fluff.

The Red Corsairs are pretty dope, too, if you are willing to do renegade Chapters.

That's just my opinion, of course.

The night lords have a series written by ADB which are very good.

But the darkest chapter by far is "the emperors children"
All are extremely messed up and the chapter itself is divided. You really wouldn't want to mess with them

Well, I'd say the Iron Warriors (my army). They do need a bit more fleshing out background wise though... Night Lords are also pretty ace. You can do great things with the "Justice against all" theme.

@OP : as you can see, all the traitor legions have exciting background.

My favourite would be the Bearers : 10k years ago, they were declared traitors because they worshipped the emperor as a god. They were BTs before BTs and the god emperor existed.

I love the irony in that loop.