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sickening wrote:
So if you assume that any of your opponent can get line breaker, whats to stop them from killing those grots that you have in the back field?

The difference between line breaker and reaching those gretchin is usually up to 24". Line breaker can be archived by a single fast unit moving 12"+ during their last turn, or a transport unloading into my deployment zone, of which neither which is incredibly hard.

I don't know about you but I don't like those odds very much. Alls it take si one flamer and whoosh! they are all dead, or running away.

You gun that flamer down while it crosses at least half the board. End of story. Even if that one flamer hits, you should not lose more than 4-5 models unless some slanesh shenanigans are in place (which in turn means, that an expensive HQ has come to kill your 40 point unit). Then you lose another d3 to pass your moral check 83% of the time, meaning they need another turn to kill those gretchin - if you let them, you'll probably have pretty good reasons to do so. Of course they need some protection from the rest of your army, but it's still way easier to hold that backfield objective with your gretchin than clear the opposing one.

I don't aim for a single objective. It only take ones to win. Weather you have 4 and he has 3 or if you have 1 and he has none. Yes with the addition of secondary objectives it makes it a bit more difficult. But with Lootas you should be able to get the first blood no Problem.

Lootaz are not going to score first blood if:
1) You go second
2) The game starts with night fighting
Which is, not considering things like Imothekh denying stealing, 80% of your games.

Killling the Warlord isn't that hard IMHO. And Line breaker should be a breeze for most Ork amries. So yes I only need one to win.

So, you think killing Mephiston, Eldrad, Kairos, Draigo, St. Celestine, Biker Warbosses, Daemon Princes, Hive Tyrants or a Terminator Librarian is easier than preventing a flamethrower from shooting your gretchin? Do your orks have different ammunition than mine?

Jidmah
The difference between line breaker and reaching those gretchin is usually up to 24". Line breaker can be archived by a single fast unit moving 12"+ during their last turn, or a transport unloading into my deployment zone, of which neither which is incredibly hard.

Ok I will give you that.

You gun that flamer down while it crosses at least half the board. End of story. Even if that one flamer hits, you should not lose more than 4-5 models unless some slanesh shenanigans are in place (which in turn means, that an expensive HQ has come to kill your 40 point unit). Then you lose another d3 to pass your moral check 83% of the time, meaning they need another turn to kill those gretchin - if you let them, you'll probably have pretty good reasons to do so. Of course they need some protection from the rest of your army, but it's still way easier to hold that backfield objective with your gretchin than clear the opposing one.

What about Late drop pods? Flyers? Out flankers? There are a ton of ways to bring in some flamers without having to run acrossed the board. If it means win or lose, I am sure someone will try it. I know I would.

Lootaz are not going to score first blood if:
1) You go second
2) The game starts with night fighting
Which is, not considering things like Imothekh denying stealing, 80% of your games.

No, but they have a damned good chance to do so.
1)Just because you go second doesn't mean you will lose first blood. What about them having to deal with Night fight? It only works against me, but not for the opponent?
2) See number 1. Night fight doesn't mean that I also can't kill a rhino or something that infiltrated. Yes they will get better saves. but when you still have to make a ton of saves something will die.
Don't have to worry about this one. No one plays Crons.

So, you think killing Mephiston, Eldrad, Kairos, Draigo, St. Celestine, Biker Warbosses, Daemon Princes, Hive Tyrants or a Terminator Librarian is easier than preventing a flamethrower from shooting your gretchin? Do your orks have different ammunition than mine?

You are assuming that everyone plays with Special characters. Well hate to tell you most of whom I play doesn't. I have killed plenty of Princes first turn among other HQ's Its not that hard man. Yes I will grant you some can be tougher then the others, but they still will die from bad rolls. After all that is half of this game dice rolls and luck.

 balsak_da_mighty wrote:
What about Late drop pods? Flyers? Out flankers? There are a ton of ways to bring in some flamers without having to run acrossed the board. If it means win or lose, I am sure someone will try it. I know I would.

Luckily, 3+/3+/automatic reserves work in our favor here. After turn three it's very unlikely to have an reserves remaining. From experience I know that any back field attacks at that point are much more likely to target lootaz, since they do a lot more damage than that quad gun to your enemies army. Even if the quad gun is more threatening, especially fliers simply take out the quad gun itself.

No, but they have a damned good chance to do so.
1)Just because you go second doesn't mean you will lose first blood. What about them having to deal with Night fight? It only works against me, but not for the opponent?
2) See number 1. Night fight doesn't mean that I also can't kill a rhino or something that infiltrated. Yes they will get better saves. but when you still have to make a ton of saves something will die.
Don't have to worry about this one. No one plays Crons.

Which exactly my point. You cannot count on first blood. Orks have a lot of units vulnerable to getting shot off the table first turn(and are even good targets to begin with), including pretty much anything but boyz. You might shoot down that rhino turn one. But your opponent might also be aware of that and simply pop smoke at night and stay out of 24" - even lootaz have a hard time getting past such good cover saves. Plus, many armies have a way of circumventing night fighting, be it night vision, search lights or dark sun filters.
Oh, and Imothekh actually works in our favor - he denies his owner steal the initiative against orks, as he can't figure them out

So, you think killing Mephiston, Eldrad, Kairos, Draigo, St. Celestine, Biker Warbosses, Daemon Princes, Hive Tyrants or a Terminator Librarian is easier than preventing a flamethrower from shooting your gretchin? Do your orks have different ammunition than mine?

You are assuming that everyone plays with Special characters. Well hate to tell you most of whom I play doesn't. I have killed plenty of Princes first turn among other HQ's Its not that hard man. Yes I will grant you some can be tougher then the others, but they still will die from bad rolls. After all that is half of this game dice rolls and luck.

Half of those are not special characters, and all of them are quite common, if not must-haves in their corresponding armies. I think what the people you play do is pretty irrelevant to the OP, me, or anyone else outside your playing group. Few blood angel players leave Mephiston at home, Eldrad is a common part of any Eldar army, and close to no competitive daemon and SoB armies skip Kairos and St. Celestine. For that reason, you should expect to see them whenever you go to a store and simply ask whether anyone wants to play you - even more so if you attend a tournament.
Anyways, you pretty much made my point again. It's luck. Killing a Big Mek, an Autarch, a CCS or Spacemarine Captain is pretty easy, but you can't count on your opponent bringing such soft warlords.

What you can count on, is that those gretchin are going to hold an objective while shooting a pretty decent gun and being very hard to remove. Your opponent must invest non-trivial resources to remove the unit, resources that are unavailable for fighting the rest of your army. No maybe or luck involved. If he drop-pods a dread, tacticals or even sternguard onto your gretchin, thats a lot more points invested than he kills. Most fliers will struggle to prevent the gretchin diving for 2+ cover unless they are really close, which in turn means that they are not going to shoot anything meaningful next turn unless they go into hover mode - which is a really bad idea with lootaz around.
If your opponent ignores those gretchin, you prevent him from harming them, or is even unable to attack your backfield, all you need to do is to succeed in any of the secondary objective where he does not, or grab another objective. So those 140 points you invested(which is stil less than most other scoring units in the game) puts pressure on your opponent by simply existing. Last time I checked, that's a good thing.

Do you think the new FAQ's will effect my list at all? I can't see anything that needs to be changed.

Looks good. If you could tweek it a little bit to get 3 different units of lootas at 10-11 strong, that would help with prioritising targets. Thats about it really.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 sickening wrote:
Do you think the new FAQ's will effect my list at all? I can't see anything that needs to be changed.

Nope not your 3rd one. The core rules faq only really effected nob bikers.